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Thread: Famous Viking Warrior Was a Woman, DNA Evidence Reveals.641 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWF View Post
    Well known Viking gravesite long thought to belong to a male warrior turns out to belong to a female after DNA testing. This is thought to be significant in redefining the gender roles of women in history. However, the story is not without controversy. Some now question whether the gravesite containing female remains was truly indicative of a viking warrior.

    I had thought it was well known that ancient nordic women were Shield Maidens who fought as warriors in their own right but it seems some call that a myth too. I find it a bit odd that no one seemed to raise questions about the warrior status of the remains until they were identified as a woman so there could be lots of denial going on. What do you think?
    1) Birka was a Viking era town, but it's not like everyone who lived in Birka were Vikings.

    2) Vikings weren't an ethnic group. They were Scandinavians, but not all Scandinavians at the time were Vikings (in fact, most weren't). Vikings were basically Scandinavian males who were doing gangstershit outside of Scandinavia, like trade and raid, mainly in Britain and Russia. Like this:




    3) It's extremely unlikely that Vikings were 50% males and 50% females. Part of the reason for this is because regardless of culture, women generally weren't warriors back then, because unlike the modern era where you can just equip women with lethal machine guns, you had to be strong enough to use swords and wield other heavy weapons. Weapons that were simply too heavy for women to handle. You also had to be strong physically, in case you had to do some battle not involving weapons.

    Þungur hnífur - Hrafninn Flýgur:


    ^^ "Tunkur knivur"

    4) I'm sure there were some occasional shieldmaiden warriors, but shieldmaiden nationalism is just beta-male feminist propaganda that is heavily promoted by incel dorks who are trying to get laid (think of Skadi Forum, lol). This female Viking warrior -- if she ever was an actual Viking warrior -- may be one of the few female warriors from that time. The fact that she was buried in Birka however, makes it questionable if she was a Viking to begin with, because Birka was inhabited by non-Viking Swedes also (who were probably the majority inhabitants of Birka).

    To come to the conclusion that she was a female Viking warrior just because she was burried in Birka, is like saying every Swede in Stockholm is a bus driver, just because there are Swedish bus drivers in Stockholm. She might have been a relative of an actual Viking warrior, who felt that he had to bury her with some of his weapons or something. Are there any testimony on her grave? The Vikings were largely illiterate, so how great of a warrior she was will probably remain unknown, and the fact that her gender wasn't known until DNA testing, makes her life largely unknown.

    Moreover, burying someone with their swords and horses (and sometimes cows), that's an Indo-European cultural practice that goes all the way back to Yamnaya. All this means is that she was wealthy, and perhaps some of these weapons and animals were the property of her husband, who had died abroad in battle, with his body missing (or somehow couldn't be shipped back to Birka), and then she was buried with his remaining property or something.

    Who knows, we'll never know.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2017-09-13 at 18:35.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    1) Birka was a Viking era town, but it's not like everyone who lived in Birka were Vikings.

    2) Vikings weren't an ethnic group. They were Scandinavians, but not all Scandinavians at the time were Vikings (in fact, most weren't). Vikings were basically Scandinavian males who were doing gangstershit outside of Scandinavia, like trade and raid, mainly in Britain and Russia. Like this:




    3) It's extremely unlikely that Vikings were 50% males and 50% females. Part of the reason for this is because regardless of culture, women generally weren't warriors back then, because unlike the modern era where you can just equip women with lethal machine guns, you had to be strong enough to use swords and wield other heavy weapons. Weapons that were simply too heavy for women to handle. You also had to be strong physically, in case you had to do some battle not involving weapons.

    Þungur hnífur - Hrafninn Flýgur:


    ^^ "Tunkur knivur"

    4) I'm sure there were some occasional shieldmaiden warriors, but shieldmaiden nationalism is just beta-male feminist propaganda that is heavily promoted by incel dorks who are trying to get laid (think of Skadi Forum, lol). This female Viking warrior -- if she ever was an actual Viking warrior -- may be one of the few female warriors from that time. The fact that she was buried in Birka however, makes it questionable if she was a Viking to begin with, because Birka was inhabited by non-Viking Swedes also (who were probably the majority inhabitants of Birka).

    To come to the conclusion that she was a female Viking warrior just because she was burried in Birka, is like saying every Swede in Stockholm is a bus driver, just because there are Swedish bus drivers in Stockholm. She might have been a relative of an actual Viking warrior, who felt that he had to bury her with some of his weapons or something. Are there any testimony on her grave? The Vikings were largely illiterate, so how great of a warrior she was will probably remain unknown, and the fact that her gender wasn't known until DNA testing, makes her life largely unknown.

    Moreover, burying someone with their swords and horses (and sometimes cows), that's an Indo-European cultural practice that goes all the way back to Yamnaya. All this means is that she was wealthy, and perhaps some of these weapons and animals were the property of her husband, who had died abroad in battle, with his body missing (or somehow couldn't be shipped back to Birka), and then she was buried with his remaining property or something.

    Who knows, we'll never know.
    Probably a widow as is mentioned here (unlike the Hindus, Nordics respected widows)
    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap...ren-var-kvinna

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, @CWF

    https://www.svt.se/nyheter/vetenskap...ren-var-kvinna

    The skeleton have no marks of hard labor or injuries from battle, as is common among other viking age warriors
    The Swedish version of this article actually has parts that tells that she was not necessarly a warrior.
    Last edited by Janos; 2017-09-13 at 19:13.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    Probably a widow as is mentioned here (unlike the Hindus, Nordics respected widows)
    Sati was very likely a proto-Indo-European practice, according to Mallory. Burning witches on a stake is actually a non-Christian practice and simply the European equivalent of Sati (although obviously more politicized, but burning witches has its roots in Sati and not in Christianity).

    Here's a scholarly article about Sati:

    Pompa Banerjee. Burning Women: Widows, Witches and Early Modern European Travellers in India. Early Modern Cultural Studies. Palgrave, 2003. pp. xviii + 278 + illustrations.

    And JP Mallory has also discussed the occurrence of Sati in early (eastern) European prehistory:

    In a stone-cut tomb was found a man accompanied by a stone battle-axe, copper daggers, an arrowhead and pot, and a woman with evident skull injuries suggesting that she was dispatched on the death of her husband according to the rite of the suttee as practiced in ancient India.
    — J.P. Mallory, In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology, and Myth, ISBN 050005052X, p. 93

    Into the territory of Southeastern Europe, characterized by Gimbutas as sexually egalitarian and peaceful, there appear alien burials morphologically identical to those on the steppe. These are generally confined to males and are accompanied by weapons – arrows, spears and knives; and by symbols of power – horse headed sceptres. The rite of suttee, the sacrificial execution of a woman on the death of her husband, is indicated in some burials suggesting the patriarchal character of the warrior-pastoralists who superimposed themselves on the local agricultural populations.
    — J.P. Mallory, In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology, and Myth, ISBN 050005052X, p. 184

    However, Gimbutas argues that upon this base was superimposed a ruling stratum from the Pontic region. The evidence, she argues, is to be found in the complete congruency of the burial rites of the two areas – stone cists, cromelechs, stelae, ritual burial of animals including horses, and the practice of sutte, executing the wife and possibly other members of the family on the death of the husband.
    — J.P. Mallory, In Search of the Indo-Europeans: Language, Archaeology, and Myth, ISBN 050005052X, p. 250

    ^^ Seems familiar? They were, just like this female Viking warrior, buried with their weapons and animals. The Vikings were simply very conservative.

    So who knows, this female Viking warrior might have been executed Sati-style after her husband died in battle, and he wasn't around to be buried along with her.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Sati was very likely a proto-Indo-European practice, according to Mallory. Burning witches on a stake is actually a non-Christian practice and simply the European equivalent of Sati (although obviously more politicized, but burning witches has its roots in Sati and not in Christianity).
    Burning witches has nothing to do with Sati, but with this book who recognized witches as being servants of Satan. And because they were, they were guilty of heresy, and burning was the standard penalty for heresy (all those Protestants who were executed in England during the Rule Of Bloody Mary Tudor were burned alive, mostly males).

    So who knows, this female Viking warrior might have been executed Sati-style after her husband died in battle, and he wasn't around to be buried along with her.
    Unlikely, but who knows.
    Last edited by Janos; 2017-09-13 at 19:06.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    Burning witches has nothing to do with Sati, but with this book who recognized witches as being servants of Satan.
    That's a non-biblical book, published in the 1400s. Just like the book of Mormon is a non-biblical book. Both represent the same thing: European Christians reverting back to pre-Christian, Pagan practices, like burning women and reintroducing polytheism and so on.

    Anyway who cares, all I'm saying is that it's fully possible that she was executed Sati-style.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWF View Post
    Well known Viking gravesite long thought to belong to a male warrior turns out to belong to a female after DNA testing. This is thought to be significant in redefining the gender roles of women in history. However, the story is not without controversy. Some now question whether the gravesite containing female remains was truly indicative of a viking warrior.

    I had thought it was well known that ancient nordic women were Shield Maidens who fought as warriors in their own right but it seems some call that a myth too. I find it a bit odd that no one seemed to raise questions about the warrior status of the remains until they were identified as a woman so there could be lots of denial going on. What do you think?
    Here's why shieldmaiden nationalism is a myth and why people are questioning her Viking/warrior status:

    Technically, women couldn’t even be Vikings. As Judith Jesch, author of “Women in the Viking Age” (1991), has pointed out, the Old Norse word “vikingar” only applied to men, usually to those men who embarked from Scandinavia in their famous long boats and sailed to such far-flung places as Britain, Europe, Russia, the North Atlantic islands and North America between roughly A.D. 800-1100.
    http://www.history.com/news/what-was...the-viking-age

    So much for the Vikings being progressive feminists who championed equality The Swedish language is very sexist btw

    So, let's recap why she wasn't a Viking:

    1) She was a woman (that alone disqualifies her).

    2) She was buried in Sweden, so she probably spent most of her life in Sweden doing what other Swedish women did at the time, as opposed to doing some Viking gangstershit in continental Europe and Britain.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2017-09-13 at 19:40.
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    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Here's why shieldmaiden nationalism is a myth and why people are questioning her Viking/warrior status:

    Technically, women couldn’t even be Vikings. As Judith Jesch, author of “Women in the Viking Age” (1991), has pointed out, the Old Norse word “vikingar” only applied to men, usually to those men who embarked from Scandinavia in their famous long boats and sailed to such far-flung places as Britain, Europe, Russia, the North Atlantic islands and North America between roughly A.D. 800-1100.
    http://www.history.com/news/what-was...the-viking-age

    So much for the Vikings being progressive feminists who championed equality The Swedish language is very sexist btw

    So, let's recap why she wasn't a Viking:

    1) She was a woman (that alone disqualifies her).

    2) She was buried in Sweden, so she probably spent most of her life in Sweden doing what other Swedish women did at the time, as opposed to doing some Viking gangstershit in continental Europe and Britain.
    The Swedish article mentions that she was probably part of Birka's ruling family/class. Ruling class doesn't only mean warriors, as the family was kind of an organization with different roles for different members.
    Last edited by Janos; 2017-09-13 at 19:44.
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    Using women as warriors would obviously be an extreme, last resort for any sane tribe (much like the recruitment of old men and small boys). Women are neither physically nor psychologically adapted to the task of killing and/or maiming others. They're nurturers, and their value to the tribe is completely tied to sex and the reproduction it results in.

    Within a generation or two, a tribe can recover from losing half its men in battle, through polygamy if nothing else. Losing half of the women, on the other hand, means that a copious amount of children, grandchildren, great grandchildren (etc. etc.) of both sexes will never be born. Only an idiot would risk facing such a scenario by sending women into battle, barring extreme circumstances. The risk is too great and the potential reward (female fighting prowess) is too low.


    At any rate, shieldmaidens and amazons were obviously an exception to the norm of masculine/feminine gender roles. OP's articles are nothing but sensationalism based on speculation.
    Last edited by Cromagnorse; 2017-09-14 at 04:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    1) Birka was a Viking era town, but it's not like everyone who lived in Birka were Vikings.

    2) Vikings weren't an ethnic group. They were Scandinavians, but not all Scandinavians at the time were Vikings (in fact, most weren't). Vikings were basically Scandinavian males who were doing gangstershit outside of Scandinavia, like trade and raid, mainly in Britain and Russia. Like this:




    3) It's extremely unlikely that Vikings were 50% males and 50% females. Part of the reason for this is because regardless of culture, women generally weren't warriors back then, because unlike the modern era where you can just equip women with lethal machine guns, you had to be strong enough to use swords and wield other heavy weapons. Weapons that were simply too heavy for women to handle. You also had to be strong physically, in case you had to do some battle not involving weapons.

    Þungur hnífur - Hrafninn Flýgur:


    ^^ "Tunkur knivur"

    4) I'm sure there were some occasional shieldmaiden warriors, but shieldmaiden nationalism is just beta-male feminist propaganda that is heavily promoted by incel dorks who are trying to get laid (think of Skadi Forum, lol). This female Viking warrior -- if she ever was an actual Viking warrior -- may be one of the few female warriors from that time. The fact that she was buried in Birka however, makes it questionable if she was a Viking to begin with, because Birka was inhabited by non-Viking Swedes also (who were probably the majority inhabitants of Birka).

    To come to the conclusion that she was a female Viking warrior just because she was burried in Birka, is like saying every Swede in Stockholm is a bus driver, just because there are Swedish bus drivers in Stockholm. She might have been a relative of an actual Viking warrior, who felt that he had to bury her with some of his weapons or something. Are there any testimony on her grave? The Vikings were largely illiterate, so how great of a warrior she was will probably remain unknown, and the fact that her gender wasn't known until DNA testing, makes her life largely unknown.

    Moreover, burying someone with their swords and horses (and sometimes cows), that's an Indo-European cultural practice that goes all the way back to Yamnaya. All this means is that she was wealthy, and perhaps some of these weapons and animals were the property of her husband, who had died abroad in battle, with his body missing (or somehow couldn't be shipped back to Birka), and then she was buried with his remaining property or something.

    Who knows, we'll never know.
    1. That is sensible but I don't think anyone has said only Vikings lived in Birka. They said Birka has a large Viking burial ground.

    2. True also. Vikings were not an ethnic group. Not sure what that has to do with the archaeological report though.

    3.Who said Vikings were 50% male and 50% female? Certainly weapons don't have to be heavy they just have to be effective and that depends on the intended use. And if 3% of Vikings were female does that mean they didn't exist?

    4. Birka was inhabited by vikings and non-vikings. It was a trading settlement. Also, see my #1 above. It's the burial ground that is relevant. I leave propaganda to others. I just deal with the facts and let the chips fall where they may. That's why I posted the story and a critical report as well. What is this "shield-maiden nationalism" you speak of?

    I don't think the report states she was a viking just because she was buried in Birka. If it does, show me where please? And do you believe archaeology depends on the testimony of who is in the grave? Are you familiar with archaeology? Tutankhamun was virtually unknown before his tomb was discovered also. It's the find of the preserved grave that is most relevant here. It speaks to the story of the persons life and the culture of that place. I'm sure whoever was buried there meant something to the people of the area but we aren't discussing personal popularity, are we?

    I've already talked about Tut so we know being buried with items of importance and wealth is inaccurately described as an Indo-European practice. As to saying "we will never know" that makes no sense. Of course there will be continuing study that will shed light on this subject in the future. Let's not be anti-intellectual about this.


    Your video cut the scene too early. Heavy knives don't always win!
    Last edited by CWF; 2017-09-14 at 18:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Here's why shieldmaiden nationalism is a myth and why people are questioning her Viking/warrior status:

    Technically, women couldn’t even be Vikings. As Judith Jesch, author of “Women in the Viking Age” (1991), has pointed out, the Old Norse word “vikingar” only applied to men, usually to those men who embarked from Scandinavia in their famous long boats and sailed to such far-flung places as Britain, Europe, Russia, the North Atlantic islands and North America between roughly A.D. 800-1100.
    http://www.history.com/news/what-was...the-viking-age

    So much for the Vikings being progressive feminists who championed equality The Swedish language is very sexist btw

    So, let's recap why she wasn't a Viking:

    1) She was a woman (that alone disqualifies her).

    2) She was buried in Sweden, so she probably spent most of her life in Sweden doing what other Swedish women did at the time, as opposed to doing some Viking gangstershit in continental Europe and Britain.
    LOL! But she's a girrrrlllll! Yuck.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagnorse View Post
    Using women as warriors would obviously be an extreme, last resort for any sane tribe (much like the recruitment of old men and small boys). Women are neither physically nor psychologically adapted to the task of killing and/or maiming others. They're nurturers, and their value to the tribe is completely tied to sex and the reproduction it results in.

    Within a generation or two, a tribe can recover from losing half its men in battle, through polygamy if nothing else. Losing half of the women, on the other hand, means that a copious amount of children, grandchildren, great grandchildren (etc. etc.) of both sexes will never be born. Only an idiot would risk facing such a scenario by sending women into battle, barring extreme circumstances. The risk is too great and the potential reward (female fighting prowess) is too low.


    At any rate, shieldmaidens and amazons were obviously an exception to the norm of masculine/feminine gender roles. OP's articles are nothing but sensationalism based on speculation.
    Okay. But this isn't really about what place you think women should hold in society its about an archaeological find.

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