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Thread: Tollensee: 4000-warrior battle 1300 BC in Northern Germany935 days old

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    Our findings suggest that these soldiers, while from a large geographic area, likely represented a single ethnic group.
    Poles?



    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2018-07-06 at 13:14.

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    nice summary from this month in German
    there is nothing new except that the battle ground may be larger than thought
    there weren't any clans fighting, the fighters were not kin to those fighting at their side, they were very young
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    Sensationeller Fundort
    Das älteste bekannte Schlachtfeld liegt nördlich von Berlin

    https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berl...erlin-31716182

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--yUuR_F_wU
    Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley // Ancient History Documentary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--yUuR_F_wU
    Europe's Earliest Battle? - The Mystery of the Tollense Valley // Ancient History Documentary
    The video says that the Battle site contains thousands and thousands of bones and yet there is no online internet calculator to see how related you are to any given warrior. Too bad because that would be really cool !

    For instance, I cluster really closely with a Celto-Germanic native British Gladiator (3DRIF-16) --200AD from Roman Britain. It gives you like a really cool feeling of connectedness with the past to have something confirmed like this.

    I might start a thread on it since it is off topic here.

    Eurogenes K15 on steroids via DIYdodecad and more samples etc... via Admixture Studio v1.4 :

    Using 1 populations approximation
    1 100% Southwest_English @ 4.152

    Mix-mode :
    1 75.59% Orcadian + 24.41% East_German @ 2.375 ; Orcadian is NorthEast Scottish e.g. Celtic + Viking

    Using 4 populations approximation
    1 25% East_German + 25% Hinxton3 (ancient England) + 25% Orcadian + 25% Southwest_English @ 2.246

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    Lost in combat? A scrap metal find from the Bronze Age battlefield site at Tollense

    Metal finds analysed. We are still waiting for genetic analyses.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...5ACA5111236307
    Abstract

    A decade ago, archaeologists discovered the site of a Bronze Age battlefield in the Tollense Valley in north-eastern Germany. Dated to the early thirteenth century BC, the remains of over 140 individuals have been documented, along with many associated bronze objects. Here, the authors present a new assemblage of 31 objects from the site, including three bronze cylinders that may be the fastenings of an organic container. The objects are similar to those found in Bronze Age burials of southern Central Europe, and may represent the personal equipment of a warrior from that region who died on the battlefield in Northern Europe.
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...07/core-reader
    Last edited by Skomand; 2019-10-19 at 20:27.

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    I read somewhere that they suspect an area between Bohemia and the Carpathian Mountains to be the origin, but yet to be seen. The place was an important rivercrossing.
    "From the wolves within the thickets, from the roarings of the pine-tree, from the burrows of the fox-dog, art thou coming from these places?" Kalevala Rune XVII Väinämöinen finds the lost-word. https://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/kvrune17.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    Lost in combat? A scrap metal find from the Bronze Age battlefield site at Tollense

    Metal finds analysed. We are still waiting for genetic analyses.

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...5ACA5111236307

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...07/core-reader
    From the quote:
    a warrior from that region
    The did write "may", and "may" it is. It's quite obvious that copper and tin didn't lie about everywhere, so a lot of long distance European trade happened. Large amounts of bronze artifact have been found here in Denmark, for example, and we have no copper or tin whatsoever. So how could we have all those lurs, helmets and weapons made out of bronze, and I don't exaggerate when I say we have found thousands of bronze artifacts here, including some imported finished artifacts?
    Link to study of Danish Bronze age bronze
    As can be seen, a fairly large portion supposedly came from northern Italy! In Denmark we have tens of thousands of Bronze Age burial mounds, only a fraction has been excavated. So there's undoubtedly still a lot of artifacts to be found, and it all came from somewhere else. Apparently, the people in Denmark at the time traded amber for copper with southern Europe. This amber may have come from the Baltic area, though there's also a load of Baltic amber in Denmark (I have found a lot myself, but unfortunately I lost it). It seems that Denmark and southern Sweden was particularly wealthy in the Bronze age, perhaps due to the amber trade.

    I don't say that the warriors were Danish, not at all, but that they don't necessarily come from the region where the objects come from! Maybe they do, maybe not. In my opinion it's wrong to jump to such a haphazard conclusion without more definite evidence.
    Last edited by JaM; 2019-10-20 at 10:59.

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    It's not a Northern vs Southern army battle. It's 2 Northern armies battling and 1 of them had Southern mercenaries. Anyway, it's pretty crazy Southern like people got that far North about a thousand years before the Roman Republic. Not to mention that there was a large scale battle going on up there. A lot of these men probably lived incredible lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    It's not a Northern vs Southern army battle. It's 2 Northern armies battling and 1 of them had Southern mercenaries. Anyway, it's pretty crazy Southern like people got that far North about a thousand years before the Roman Republic. Not to mention that there was a large scale battle going on up there. A lot of these men probably lived incredible lives.
    I think 'southern' in this case means southern germany, austria, slovakia, hungary, etc. Maybe northern Italy(?).

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    Warfare in Bronze Age Society (edited by Christian Horn and Kristian Kristiansen, 2018)


    "there is a concentration of swords and Aegean imports/imitations in Slovakia and the Carpathian basin, and then there is another heavy concentration in Denmark and Mecklenburg, with an empty stretch of several hundred kilometres in between. [This] suggests directional and regular trade connections between these two rich and powerful regions. Hammered bronze vessels of various types produced in the Carpathian zone reached the Nordic zone in quite large numbers and testify to the elite level of trade (Metzner-Nebelsick 2003). In the Nordic zone, Mecklenburg rose to dominance during period III, and it is therefore not surprising that hostilities would occur in this region - as witnessed in Tollense. In the following, we shall therefore discuss in more detail the possible historical processes leading to this major change in trade routes (and religious beliefs) during the late fourteenth and early thirteenth centuries BC.


    New Forms of Warfare and New Forms of More Centralized Government Go Hand in Hand

    Traditionally, Bronze Age warfare was mostly local and linked to raids and oppression using small war-bands of typically fifteen to twenty lance-carrying infantry, with one or two sword-carrying commanders. From Period III, they might have been on horseback. This pattern of small war-bands can be traced from the early Middle Bronze Age down to the Late Bronze Age (Harding 2007; Vandkilde 2013). What we see now with the Urnfield period is the beginning of more organized battles with hundreds or even thousands of warriors. This only makes sense: if you were to control you enemy’s territory after a conquest, you needed centralized settlements housing all major institutions and functions needed to govern and control a larger territory, eventually supported by smaller local forts. This form of government started on a smaller scale in the Carpathian basin with the tell cultures during the Middle Bronze Age (Earle and Kristiansen 2010) and reached a new momentum in the very same region by the fourteenth century BC, which led to settlements and increased population.


    New Forms of Settlement and Increasing Population Densities

    Cornesti Iacuri in Transylvania represented a new form of proto-urban settlement of a size never seen before or until the historical period. This settlement, nearly 6 kilometres across (1,733 hectares/ 17km2), had four fortification lines and an inner settlement with a diameter of approximately 2 kilometres (Szentmiklosi et al, 2011). Magnetic mapping and preliminary excavations suggest a dense and well-organized settlement of urban character. An estimated 824,000 tonnes of earth had to be moved for the fortification walls alone. Archaeological material and a few C14 dates suggest the construction took place during the early Urnfield Culture in the middle of the fourteenth century (Bronze D), and the settlement was apparently abandoned and burned down some time later, during HaA1 in the thirteenth century BC. There is still a long way to go before we fully understand this mega-site; archaeological work is so far preliminary, but it suggests that something completely new was taking place in terms of organization of large populations. There is also evidence of two smaller fortified sites, 1 kilometre across, which might also have been part of this new political structure. We must envisage these mega-sites as being part of a political centralization process, a complex chiefdom or archaic state that perhaps failed; however, we find corresponding rich graves from the same period, and it was contemporary with the Bernstorf fortification [in southern Germany] and its subsequent devastation. Furthermore, such population surplus would be a natural prime mover for later migrations, especially if the settlement was abandoned in part or totally.

    Such migrations correspond with evidence from Tollense in fertile Mecklenburg (Price 2014). It was here that a huge army of several hundred or perhaps even several thousand warriors met a defending army. This led to a battle that raged along the small river over several kilometres. The attackers apparently came from the south and used bronze arrowheads and also horses. Dating of the battle through C14 so far places it in the middle of the thirteenth century BC. Such a migration to the Nordic cultural zone could have been the kind of event that broke off the old exchange network to south Germany and established a new connection to the south - Slovakia and the Carpathians. It suggests that Bronze Age societies were highly organized, but also that overpopulation and new forms of political authority might have led to emigration, first to the north, later to the south. It further provides part of an explanation for a temporary collapse of the metal trade in the thirteenth century BC, as shown by the dominance of heavily worn swords.


    New Forms of Agrarian Intensification Created Large Food Supplies

    New crops and more intensive agrarian regimes were introduced during the Urnfield period, and this transformed landscapes on a large scale (Bartelheim and Stauble 2009), just as river valleys became prone to erosion (French 2010). Some of these new agrarian strategies could well have been inspired by the south, but, more importantly, they allowed more people to be fed that by the predominantly herding economies of the Tumulus culture.

    We may therefore conclude that during the thirteenth century BC societies in Central Europe underwent not only a religious reform with the onset of the Urnfield culture, but also economic and political reforms - in short, a new political economy with a higher degree of centralization was established, and, consequently, many later settlement were now fortified (Harding 2002: 296). The more extreme centralization processes may have succeeded only in the heartland of Central Europe, but they spurred new migrations to the north, the west, and later to the south. A similar development of a more hierarchical settlement structure followed by more violence i also shown through the Terramare Culture in northern Italy (Cansi et al. 2009), where a large population concentration reached its tipping point around 1200 BC and more than 100,000 people abandoned their homes. Some of them settled elsewhere in Italy, while others evidently became part of the Sea Peoples (Cardarelli 2009; Kristiansen 2016). Such a build-up of populations in northern Italy and Central Europe provides a necessary background for understanding how bronze age societies in Europe could provide the population surplus for the huge migrations on land and sea that came to characterize the twelfth century BC and which led to the onset of the Dark Age in Anatolia and the East Mediterranean.

    The change of the dominant trade routes from west to east Central Europe during the decades around 1300 BC was therefore part of regional competition between different political economies in which the new Urnfield Culture represented a return to a more centralized political economy organized around large fortified settlements in opposition to the individual farms and hamlets that characterized the Tumulus Culture and early Urnfield Culture in the west (Kristiansen 2013; Sperber 1999). Their network was based upon chiefdom confederacies, although they would have a few fortified settlements in the central hubs of the trade network, such as Bernstorf (Bahr et al. 2012). The Urnfield trade network, however, was based on control of larger parts of the network from a few large fortified settlements. due to higher population densities, they were also able to settle areas along the network through migrations supported by armies. it seems that the new eastern network maintained some political alliances with the west, as exemplified by the Riegsee and Dreiwulstschwerter sword types, but the west was not allowed full access to the metal trade, as shown by the increasing circulation time of these sword types.


    Conclusion

    Warfare became institutionalized and professionalized in the Middle Bronze Age, and travelling warriors/mercenaries helped to speed innovations in weapon technology. The flange-hilted sword was the preferred weapon and was a concrete example of this internationalism in weapon technology and warfare. Warriors were organized in local retinues of fifteen to twenty men under the local sword-bearing leader. many such war-bands could join forces and make up real armies under special circumstances. Organized trade made warriors indispensable, and warfare could take on huge proportions when it came to the control of trade routes, or rather their most important hubs/bottlenecks, such as Bernstorf. In addition, knowledge about far-away places and riches made migrations an attractive option in periods of crisis and population surplus. We may assume that a constant supply of warriors was available from sons without inheritance forming youth war-bands and later joining regular retinues. especially from the thirteenth century BC onwards, there emerged a new situation in east Central Europe with the advent of the Urnfield Culture. It led to violent transformations and migrations, and new large mega-sites were constructed. To feed such huge populations, an intensification of farming took place, one with heavier emphasis placed on crops that display more variety. Warriors were now mobilized in real armies, supporting migration; it is just such a battle of migrating people and warriors that we witness in Tollense, Mecklenburg (Price 2014). Later, they would turn to the south, Asia Minor and the east Mediterranean. However, it seems that this Urnfield mobilization would not last, and conditions returned to ‘normal’ after the twelfth century BC, although fortified settlements were now the norm.

    In all this - trade alternating with raids and sometimes leading to large-scale migrations - Bronze Age warfare looks more like Celtic and Viking warfare and migration. It implies that, by the Bronze Age, European political economies had reached a level of organization that changed little until historical times.”

    p.38-42

    https://books.google.co.uk/books/abo...page&q&f=false
    Last edited by Reason1234; 2019-10-23 at 00:15.

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