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Thread: DNA Results Kenyan (Kikuyu)654 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_African View Post
    Based on the results of the test, I'm struck by the closeness between Hema and Kikuyu DNA perhaps there is a relation there. Also, I see how misleading results could be for someone seeking to connect with lost relatives. It seems that there's been a poor effort to get enough representation across African tribes. The misclassification of Luhya as West African by 23andme also leads to a higher than normal incidence of West African for a lot of East African bantus.
    It is indeed curious that the Kikuyu and Hema are close genetically.

    I can't believe that I never bothered to look them up until now; unfortunately, there aren't many articles about them out there. Here is an excerpt of one article I found....

    The Hema are pastoralists who inhabit the North Eastern part of the Democratic Republic of Congo in the district of Ituri and North Western Uganda. They are part of the Niger Congo family and are related to the Bahororo(Bahima), Banyamulenge and Tutsi; however, similar to the Tutsi, and Bahima, their genetic makeup and pastoral culture speak of a nilo-saharan and cushitic mixed ancestry that has been infused with admixture from the Mbuti Pygmies and Bantu who are inhabitants of the region. Northern Hema speak Lendu while the Southern Hema speak a language which is similar to the Hema spoken in present day western Uganda.

    The origin of the Hema is unclear; however, the general consensus is that they are patoralists who came from East Africa between the 17th Century and 18th Century. Their origin prior to the 17th century is uncertain and opinions differ: According to Fred Muhanguzi, the Hema migrated from Present day Mali around the 1400s after being chased away by a ruler who considered them to be a threat to his leadership. From Mali, they migrated south and then west through Ethiopia, Kenya and Uganda before settling in Eastern Congo; however, according to Twekunde, the Hema, Bahororo (Bahima), Banyamulenge and Tutsi used to be one tribe that migrated to the Great lakes region of East Africa from Present day Ethiopia between 1300- 1500 AD. Yet another possible origin of the Hema is Southeastern Kasai, a southwestern district of Congo.

    The Hema were once part of the Bunyoro Kingdom in Uganda but they broke away and settled in Western Uganda and Eastern Congo in the district of Ituri during the 18th Century. The Lendu people were once regarded as the earliest inhabitants of Ituri; however, it is now known that the Mbuti were in the region up until sometime in the 16th century.

    In the beginning, the Hema and Lendu ethnic groups had a peaceful but unequal relationship in which the later were subjugated by the former; despite this, the relationship between the two remained friendly and trading took place peacefully; however, that changed when the French and Belgians arrived. The colonialists exploited and promoted a system of stratification based on an all-embracing “premise of inequality” similar to that in Rwanda: an act that created imbalances and feelings of resentment among the Lendu. These imbalances were not addressed by post colonial authorities in the early 1970s and as a result, tensions escalated and clashes erupted after a faction of disgruntled Lendu attacked and killed a Hema Chief in 1997. These clashes have been ongoing until the present.

    Here are some very recent photos I found. I apologize for their distressing nature. I couldn't find any others for some reason.

































    They have such a diverse look which isn't surprising; I can see some who would pass as Kipsigis/Nandi, San/Sandawe, Mbuti, Kikuyu, Luhya, Dhuluo, Maasai, South Sudanese and Kalenjin.
    Last edited by Karey; 2019-06-19 at 23:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_African View Post
    The pattern I'm starting to see seems to support the theory that the ancestors who I have that I share with people outside Kenya were actually from a time before Kikuyu people emerged.
    As you can see from my point above Kikuyu DNA seems to be a mix of different groups with a dominant South East African followed by Sudanese and then Ethiopian/Eritrean then West African.
    So I have a connection from Kuwait who has African ancestry but almost all of it from Sudan and Ethiopia/Eritrea therefore suggesting that the African ancestor we share was not a Kikuyu as shown below
    9.5% Sudanese 2.2%
    75.8% Southern East African 1.2%
    3.4% Ethiopian & Eritrean 0.7%
    1.5% Angolan & Congolese 0.0%
    0.9% Nigerian 0.0%
    0.1% Senegambian & Guinean 0.0%
    3.3% Broadly Northern East African 1.6%
    1.9% Broadly Congolese & Southern East African 0.2%
    1.1% Broadly West African 0.0%
    2.3% Broadly Sub-Saharan African 0.7%

    If the shared ancestor was a pure Kikuyu I would expect his relative proportions of African ancestry to be exactly in the same proportion to mine i.e. high South Eastern African followed by Sudanese etc. Yet in this case this is clearly not the case as the Sudanese component is absent and the West African DNA is completely missing. That suggests that the shared ancestor was actually not a pure Kikuyu or was from one of the constituent groups that mixed together to form the Kikuyu.
    I think the 23andme Southern East African label is far too generalized and fails to properly encapsulate an individual's full genetic makeup. Think about it; the area that this label endeavors to cover includes ethnicities that are so divergent from one another that you might as well be looking at individuals from two continents; for example, according to 23andme's reference population's page, someone who is Hadza, would be considered Southern East African or broadly sub-saharan African (unless they are included in the hunter gatherer reference which, if you look at their map, doesn't seem to be the case).

    Before Ancestry.com updated their reference populations, I saw two separate individuals described as 100% South Eastern Bantu, but after the update, a demarcation is evident; see their before and after results:

    Luo
    Before update:
    Africa Southeastern Bantu - 100%

    Updated:
    Eastern Africa - 67%
    Cameroon, Congo, Southern Bantu - 27%
    Africa South Central Hunter Gatherers - 6%

    Tanzanian:
    Results before update:
    South Eastern Bantu - 100%

    After update:
    Eastern Africa - 52%
    Cameroon, Congo, Southern Bantu - 44%
    Africa South Central Hunter Gatherers - 4%

    Gedmatch's calculators do a better job of detailing a person's diverse genetic heritage far better than any of the major DNA companies will probably ever be able to do. That's why I currently prefer gedmatch despite issues with the so called "calculator effect".

    I so happen to have the gedmatch Ethiohelix k10 Africa Only results of the Luo individual above:



    If only I had this particular Tanzania's k10 results; although, I do have have another Tanzania's results (see below) but it doesn't help in showing the demarcation that I'm trying to illustrate:



    Anyway, compared to Ancestry.com, 23andme is a far better tool, that I'm considering redoing my DNA test with them just for the Haplogroups.
    Last edited by Karey; 2019-06-20 at 03:35.

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    23andme might be off in terms of classifications of different tribes and by overly generalizing groups like South East African.
    What is definitely right is DNA Relatives. That's a lot more scientific. So the relatives that I have on that medium are definitely actual relatives and it's interesting to see that they are from all over the place as well.
    The classification though is not scientific and will most likely keep changing while they try to get things right but will likely always remain a bit unscientific partly because a tribe is not purely a genetic group and many times is a bit fluid with tribe members entering and exiting tribes for different reasons.

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    You guys all have results as one would expect. As bantus moved into East Africa its expected that they would absorb, assimilate, and take on mixture from pre-existing people as well as the those they encountered. It goes to show that diversity does exist in SSA thats often masked by a lot of the methods used in published genome wide studies who's intent isn't on SSA diversity.
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karey View Post
    I think the 23andme Southern East African label is far too generalized and fails to properly encapsulate an individual's full genetic makeup. Think about it; the area that this label endeavors to cover includes ethnicities that are so divergent from one another that you might as well be looking at individuals from two continents; for example, according to 23andme's reference population's page, someone who is Hadza, would be considered Southern East African or broadly sub-saharan African (unless they are included in the hunter gatherer reference which, if you look at their map, doesn't seem to be the case).

    Before Ancestry.com updated their reference populations, I saw two separate individuals described as 100% South Eastern Bantu, but after the update, a demarcation is evident; see their before and after results:

    Luo
    Before update:
    Africa Southeastern Bantu - 100%

    Updated:
    Eastern Africa - 67%
    Cameroon, Congo, Southern Bantu - 27%
    Africa South Central Hunter Gatherers - 6%

    Tanzanian:
    Results before update:
    South Eastern Bantu - 100%

    After update:
    Eastern Africa - 52%
    Cameroon, Congo, Southern Bantu - 44%
    Africa South Central Hunter Gatherers - 4%

    Gedmatch's calculators do a better job of detailing a person's diverse genetic heritage far better than any of the major DNA companies will probably ever be able to do. That's why I currently prefer gedmatch despite issues with the so called "calculator effect".

    I so happen to have the gedmatch Ethiohelix k10 Africa Only results of the Luo individual above:



    If only I had this particular Tanzania's k10 results; although, I do have have another Tanzania's results (see below) but it doesn't help in showing the demarcation that I'm trying to illustrate:



    Anyway, compared to Ancestry.com, 23andme is a far better tool, that I'm considering redoing my DNA test with them just for the Haplogroups.
    At the bolded part - Go for it. I wonder what will be your Mt-DNA. Cushitic? or Bantu? Mt-DNA L3x? Mt-DNA L3b? Who knows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karey View Post
    It is indeed curious that the Kikuyu and Hema are close genetically.

    I can't believe that I never bothered to look them up until now; unfortunately, there aren't many articles about them out there. Here is an excerpt of one article I found....

    The Hema are pastoralists who inhabit the North Eastern part of the Democratic Republic of Congo in the district of Ituri and North Western Uganda. They are part of the Niger Congo family and are related to the Bahororo(Bahima), Banyamulenge and Tutsi; however, similar to the Tutsi, and Bahima, their genetic makeup and pastoral culture speak of a nilo-saharan and cushitic mixed ancestry that has been infused with admixture from the Mbuti Pygmies and Bantu who are inhabitants of the region. Northern Hema speak Lendu while the Southern Hema speak a language which is similar to the Hema spoken in present day western Uganda.

    The origin of the Hema is unclear; however, the general consensus is that they are patoralists who came from East Africa between the 17th Century and 18th Century. Their origin prior to the 17th century is uncertain and opinions differ: According to Fred Muhanguzi, the Hema migrated from Present day Mali around the 1400s after being chased away by a ruler who considered them to be a threat to his leadership. From Mali, they migrated south and then west through Ethiopia, Kenya and Uganda before settling in Eastern Congo; however, according to Twekunde, the Hema, Bahororo (Bahima), Banyamulenge and Tutsi used to be one tribe that migrated to the Great lakes region of East Africa from Present day Ethiopia between 1300- 1500 AD. Yet another possible origin of the Hema is Southeastern Kasai, a southwestern district of Congo.

    The Hema were once part of the Bunyoro Kingdom in Uganda but they broke away and settled in Western Uganda and Eastern Congo in the district of Ituri during the 18th Century. The Lendu people were once regarded as the earliest inhabitants of Ituri; however, it is now known that the Mbuti were in the region up until sometime in the 16th century.

    In the beginning, the Hema and Lendu ethnic groups had a peaceful but unequal relationship in which the later were subjugated by the former; despite this, the relationship between the two remained friendly and trading took place peacefully; however, that changed when the French and Belgians arrived. The colonialists exploited and promoted a system of stratification based on an all-embracing “premise of inequality” similar to that in Rwanda: an act that created imbalances and feelings of resentment among the Lendu. These imbalances were not addressed by post colonial authorities in the early 1970s and as a result, tensions escalated and clashes erupted after a faction of disgruntled Lendu attacked and killed a Hema Chief in 1997. These clashes have been ongoing until the present.

    Here are some very recent photos I found. I apologize for their distressing nature. I couldn't find any others for some reason.

































    They have such a diverse look which isn't surprising; I can see some who would pass as Kipsigis/Nandi, San/Sandawe, Mbuti, Kikuyu, Luhya, Dhuluo, Maasai, South Sudanese and Kalenjin.
    These Hema people don't all necessarily share the same average phenotype as Kikuyus - I'm using a Kenyan lens to see them. But perhaps it's because of the conditions in which they are in. Still it would be interesting to learn more about the closeness in DNA and where it comes from. Is it a mere coincidence or there's actual relation perhaps from the past?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_African View Post
    23andme might be off in terms of classifications of different tribes and by overly generalizing groups like South East African.
    What is definitely right is DNA Relatives. That's a lot more scientific. So the relatives that I have on that medium are definitely actual relatives and it's interesting to see that they are from all over the place as well.
    The classification though is not scientific and will most likely keep changing while they try to get things right but will likely always remain a bit unscientific partly because a tribe is not purely a genetic group and many times is a bit fluid with tribe members entering and exiting tribes for different reasons.
    Do you have any Maasai or Kalenjin matches on 23andme? If so, what are their Sudanese amounts/percentages? I'm curious because I have two very close Maasai matches on ancestry.com whose updated results are rather eye-opening...see below:

    First Maasai's results before update:
    Africa Southeastern Bantu - 73%
    Middle East - 17%
    Africa North - 6%
    Senegal - 2%
    Mali - 2%

    After update:
    Eastern Africa - 47%
    Cameroon, Congo, Southern Bantu - 5%
    Africa South Central HG - 44%**
    Middle East - 4%

    ** in East Africa, Africa South Central Hunter Gatherer peaks among South Sudanese and is very likely meant to represent nilotic ancestry.

    Second Maasai's results before update:
    Africa Southeastern Bantu - 69%
    Bantu Cameroon Congo - 1%
    Africa South Central HG -1%
    Africa North - 4%
    Middle East - 14%
    Nigeria - 6%
    Senegal - 2%
    Mali - 1%

    After update:
    Eastern Africa - 65%
    Cameroon, Congo, Southern Bantu - 13%
    Africa South Central HG - 21%***
    Middle East - 1%

    ***The nilotic ancestry is high but half that of the Maasai above.

    What a difference between the two! The second Maasai's results are almost identical to some of my Kikuyu matches results (one Kikuyu match has as high as 24% HG) which gives credence to what's been said in earlier posts that some Maasai are in fact Kikuyu and vice versa.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Hand View Post
    At the bolded part - Go for it. I wonder what will be your Mt-DNA. Cushitic? or Bantu? Mt-DNA L3x? Mt-DNA L3b? Who knows.
    I suspect it will be L2a1 (pan African haplogroup) as it's very common among Kikuyu... but will see.
    Last edited by Karey; 2019-06-23 at 11:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karey View Post
    Do you have any Maasai or Kalenjin matches on 23andme? If so, what are their Sudanese amounts/percentages? I'm curious because I have two very close Maasai matches on ancestry.com whose updated results are rather eye-opening...see below:
    I have a Masai match whose DNA profile is very similar to mine, except that she is slightly more South East African than me and I'm more broadly North East African than her.
    Our Sudanese percentages are 9.3% and 9.5% (me). What I'm curious about is the source of the Sudanese and Ethiopia/Eritrean genes on 23andme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Hand View Post
    Slightly of topic. A video of a Kamba person's DNA results. Well Kambas and Kikuyus are related:
    So I ran into this article about some Kamba descended people in Paraguay called Kamba-Cue who were taken as slaves but retained their language and culture there. That offers one clue of the extent of the East African slave trade. Here's an article about the community - https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/...3hz/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_African View Post
    I have a Masai match whose DNA profile is very similar to mine, except that she is slightly more South East African than me and I'm more broadly North East African than her.
    Our Sudanese percentages are 9.3% and 9.5% (me). What I'm curious about is the source of the Sudanese and Ethiopia/Eritrean genes on 23andme.
    Indeed! That Sudan and Ethiopia/Eritrea is interesting. I have seen a Dinka and a Nuer who are above 90% Sudanese. To make things worse, some North Sudanese score well above 94% Sudan. Ethiopians score almost 100% Ethio. I don’t Like how they assign me to these two clusters. It can be misleading for somebody who doesn’t know. Like my brother is 40% Ethio; you might think he is half Ethiopian while he has nothing to do with Ethiopia.
    To me Southern east Africa is the worst cluster I’ve ever seen. This region is too diverse to be wrapped together.
    Can u guys believe, I went from 47% SEA to 36% on the new Beta update.

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