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Thread: Renfrew | Marija Rediviva: DNA and Indo-European Origins264 days old

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    Default Renfrew | Marija Rediviva: DNA and Indo-European Origins

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6vByg1lVdA

    Renfrew | Marija Rediviva: DNA and Indo-European Origins

    Presented by Lord Colin Renfrew, Senior Fellow of the McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, former Disney Professor of Archaeology and Director of the McDonald Institute, University of Cambridge Marija Rediviva: DNA and Indo-European Origins


    Marija Gimbutas had a detailed knowledge of the archaeology of prehistoric Europe and of the cultures of ‘Old Europe’ with their rich iconography of goddesses and gods, which she viewed as overwhelmed at the onset of the Bronze Age by the Kurgan invasion, an incursion of a new population from the East European steppe lands, north of the Black Sea. This she saw as the key impetus which brought Old Europe to an end, and which introduced to Europe a new population speaking early Indo-European languages. The first Memorial Lecture will offer a critical review of the question of Indo-European language origins, and will highlight the contribution of one of the leading prehistorians of the twentieth century.
    His points:

    - He admits he was wrong about Early Farmers bringing Indo-European languages to Europe
    - Gimbutas was right about the Kurgan/Yamnaya/Cordedware migration from the steppe
    - As long as we don't have DNA from Anatolia (Hittites and Luwians with the oldest recorded Indo-European languages)
    we can't decide where the first Urheimat of the Proto-Indoeuropeans was
    - The Bell Beaker phenomenon is puzzling since they originate in Iberia, however the Bell Beakers that enter the British Isles from the Netherlands do have Yamnaya DNA

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    So far the Bronze age Anatolians Don't have steppe or EHG ancestry..so basically CHG ancestry is ubiquitous in IE groups while EHG ancestry is not. EHG in the Mycenaens was hardly impressive either. 4-6%. Renfrew was definitely wrong, but maybe Childes and Gimbutas were wrong as well. Maybe Ivanov, Gamkrelidze, and Drews were right.
    Last edited by Arch Hades; 2018-02-18 at 14:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    You can use the video tag:



    The video is unavailable though. Any new YouTube link?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    His points:

    - He admits he was wrong about Early Farmers bringing Indo-European languages to Europe
    About damn time, lol. Is Dienekes still delusional about this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    - Gimbutas was right about the Kurgan/Yamnaya/Cordedware migration from the steppe
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    - As long as we don't have DNA from Anatolia (Hittites and Luwians with the oldest recorded Indo-European languages)
    we can't decide where the first Urheimat of the Proto-Indoeuropeans was
    This is nonsense though. We don't need ancient DNA from Hittites and Luwians, because there's enough Yamnaya ancient DNA to draw a conclusion, and anyway, what we'll see once they test Hittites and Luwians, will be similar to the Mycenaean ancient DNA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skomand View Post
    - The Bell Beaker phenomenon is puzzling since they originate in Iberia, however the Bell Beakers that enter the British Isles from the Netherlands do have Yamnaya DNA
    Well the Bell Beakers were basically a mix of indigenous western Europeans (prehistoric Iberians and French) with some Yamnaya admixture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Renfrew was definitely wrong
    For sure

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    but maybe Childes and Gimbutas were wrong as well.
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Maybe Ivanov, Gamkrelidze, and Drews were right.
    lol are you trolling?
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    We already have DNA from Anatolia. So his point is moot. This is just a last-ditch attempt to salvage his hypothesis.


    Quote Originally Posted by MnM View Post
    Morocco is a western lapdog.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    Those Bronze Age samples are just red herrings to distract you from the actual arrivals of populations with Semitic ancestry. Don’t take the bait by focusing on the wrong samples, lol. He is passing off Bronze Age Levantines with no evidence of strong predynastic input, as “Semites“. This way, he can flip it around and say Proto-Semitic speakers and predynastics were more or less identical to the Bronze Age Levantines sampled so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    @Semitic Duwa

    Wonder what the resident Proto-Semite has to say about this. I thought unmixed Egyptians were supposed to be Abusir with less/zero Chl?

    In your view, does this prove you wrong, or is it just a coincidence () that M1 is absent in one of the three subsamples from Abusir, and rare overall?

    And don’t change your signature now, please. I’m looking forward to you looking more and more incompetent as more aDNA is published. Wish there was a way to speed this up. But the extra wait and seeing you with your pants down every day, kinda has its own appeal, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    We already have DNA from Anatolia. So his point is moot. This is just a last-ditch attempt to salvage his hypothesis.
    I thought he had abandoned his nonsensical hypothesis 2-3 years ago? It's impressive how logic resistant he's been for so long.
    ReactOS <--- support this project so that we can get rid of Windows!
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    “A wise man makes his own decisions; an ignorant man follows public opinion.” ― Chinese proverb

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    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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