mtDNA L3 and Y-DNA E migrated back to Africa from Asia around 70,000 years ago? Cabrera et al. 2017 – 278 days old

[EliasAlucard]

This type of theory is not new.

Yeah, I've been saying for years, that DE is Eurasian. I don't really have an opinion on L3 though. But clearly, E lineages are very widespread in Africa across all language families and even racial groups (E is found among Berbers/Egyptians and most sub-Saharans), indicating that E most likely got its start in a small gene pool that somehow became very common throughout Africa.

And why do these extinct lineages have to be replaced by Eurasians according to the author?

Not sure, I don't have access to the entire study. What do you make of it?

@EliasAlucard ...So you are now saying that most SSAs/ negroids are now Eurasian?

Of course not, but their mainstream haplogroups might have mutated/originated in Asia. Haplogroups and autosomal DNA are two different things, but many population genetics studies in recent years have supported OOA back migration gene flow. Of course the OOA admixture in modern SSAs (Horners excluded) is at very low levels.

Dude, these guys are talking about Eurasians in Africa, even before the original OOA, 60 to 70 000 years ago. The desperation is becoming embarassing!

There's no actual consensus on when the OOA migrations took place. I've seen figures ranging from 60kya to 250kya. Anyway, this paper seems to be in agreement with fairly established mainstream views on the OOA migration:

According to this model, modern humans evolved in East Africa between 400,000 and 200,000 years ago. There were then at least two dispersal events from Africa to the rest of the world. The first wave took place between 130,000 and 115,000 years ago via northern Africa,[3][4][5][6][7][8] and appears to have mostly died out or retreated, although there is some evidence of a presence of modern humans in China about 80,000 years ago.[9] In the 2010s, genomic testing of living populations has located archaic admixture of modern humans outside of Africa with Neanderthals and Denisovans.[10]

A second wave took place after the Toba supereruption (c.77,000 years ago) via the so-called Southern Route, following the southern coastline of Asia, which led to the lasting colonization of Australia by around 65,000–50,000 years ago[note 1][note 2] while Europe was populated by an early offshoot which settled the Near East and Europe less than 55,000 years ago.[13][14][15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent..._modern_humans

Of course, this also begs the question if the OOA tribe was separated from other Africans many thousands or even tens of thousands of years, before the OOA migration. This must have been the case, otherwise all of humanity would have left Africa once a small tribe left the place.

[El-Maestro]

Nah most SSA's are Eurasian...

[Kasekemwy]

@EliasAlucard : Elias, try to understand what's going on. Because of the recent reveals of Ancient DNA, it's becoming more and more clear that post OOA migrations from Africa had a greater role than initially believed in so-called Eurasia. Researchers like the ones who published this study are preparing themselves for the hard landing by pushing back OOA further and further because it's becoming clear that Eurasian haplogroups such as M may have emerged in Africa.

When the scientific consensus agrees with the idea that these Eurasian haplogroups are actually African, people like you can say it doesn't matter. The parent clade L3 was Eurasian anyway and back~migrated to Africa.

[BlessedbyHorus]

@EliasAlucard : Elias, try to understand what's going on. Because of the recent reveals of Ancient DNA, it's becoming more and more clear that post OOA migrations from Africa had a greater role than initially believed in so-called Eurasia. Researchers like the ones who published this study are preparing themselves for the hard landing by pushing back OOA further and further because it's becoming clear that Eurasian haplogroups such as M may have emerged in Africa.

When the scientific consensus agrees with the idea that these Eurasian haplogroups are actually African, people like you can say it doesn't matter. The parent clade L3 was Eurasian anyway and back~migrated to Africa.

The bolded is going to cause wide-spread mayhem across the internet.

[NonFingo]

This paper (Cabrera et al) is self-defeating. The authors cite a paper that found DNA of a modern human ghost population in Neanderthals. This Neanderthal-ghost population admixture event was dated to 100ky ago. Cabrera et al use this admixture event as evidence that the ancestors of all living Eurasians must have already been in Eurasia by 100ky ago. I checked what their source (Kuhlwilm et al 2016) actually says, and it has nothing to do with living Eurasians, nor with the Africans who supposedly back migrated to Africa.

If this new OOA model were accurate, we’d expect the ghost human DNA in these Neanderthals to be closely related to living Eurasians and the Africans who supposedly back migrated. That is, the last populations we’d expect to have an affinity with this ghost population’s DNA, is Pygmies and Khoisan. However, the actual paper says that Khoisan are closest to this ghost population, not the supposed ‘backmigrants’ or Eurasians:

Because there is fairly weak information in the data to support such inference, the uncertainty in the inferred values is quite high, and different values are obtained in the four runs (lowest in the ‘Chinese’ analysis and highest in the ‘San’ analysis). However, if we take the union of the 95% Bayesian credible intervals for the four runs, we can conclude that the source population likely diverged from present-day humans between 138,000 and 433,000 years ago, which is consistent with divergence either before or slightly after the divergence of the San from other present-day populations.

https://media.nature.com/original/na...re16544-s1.pdf

Note that this is not a case of a self-defeating citation that just happens to disagree with Cabrera et al. They can’t fix this by removing the citation from the preprint and pretending Kuhlwilm et al just had a different opinion. Cabrera’s whole 120ky OOA migration doesn’t even involve the ancestors of living populations, but some extinct human population that’s older than the Khoisan.

Cabrera et al are going to regret they wrote this. We’re in the aDNA age now. This is not the early 2000s where you can write a specious paper and thrive because there is no aDNA to falsify it conclusively. Cabrera et al are one aDNA sample away from getting debunked with relevant aDNA. They might get debunked with new aDNA before this comes out of preprint.

The best part of this paper is the supplementary data. Looking forward to them making good on their promise to include their trove of unpublished mtDNA and Y-DNA data.

[eggyolk]

Too many holes in this paper for me to take it seriously.

[Truthcentric]

The more interesting question to me is, why are so many of these people writing pop. genetics papers obsessed with back-migrations into Africa? Is this some kind of resurgent Hamiticism, or something else?

[beyoku]

The more interesting question to me is, why are so many of these people writing pop. genetics papers obsessed with back-migrations into Africa? Is this some kind of resurgent Hamiticism, or something else?

Right. It’s a concentrated effort. It’s interesting the closest paper you can get that speaks on the African origins of Afro Asiatic and OR their correlation E-M35 lineages in and outside of Africa comes by way of Andrew Lancaster. An amateur enthusiast genealogy guy.

http://www.jogg.info/pages/51/files/Lancaster.pdf

[Celph Titled]

May this explain why ancient amerindians from Peru came out with the mtdna L3? it couldnt of been africans sailing out here, they wouldve killed them with their old world diseases just like euros did, there cant be no other explanation other than this theory

[BlessedbyHorus]

May this explain why ancient amerindians from Peru came out with the mtdna L3? it couldnt of been africans sailing out here, they wouldve killed them with their old world diseases just like euros did, there cant be no other explanation other than this theory

This...is... strange? Anyone else?

PS: DO NOT let radical Afronuts like Clyde Winters see this. Dear God...