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Thread: Non-European admixture in white Americans611 days old

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    Default Non-European admixture in white Americans

    We need a thread where we discuss this, it's possible we have an older thread about this topic, but anyway, Wikipedia has a pretty good summary:

    DNA analysis on White Americans by geneticist Mark D. Shriver showed an average of 0.7% Sub-Saharan African admixture and 3.2% Native American admixture.[72] The same author, in another study, claimed that about 30% of all White Americans, approximately 66 million people, have a median of 2.3% of Black African admixture.[73] Shriver discovered his ancestry is 10 percent African, and Shriver's partner in DNA Print Genomics, J.T. Frudacas, contradicted him two years later stating "Five percent of European Americans exhibit some detectable level of African ancestry."[74]

    From the 23andMe database, about 5 to at least 13 percent of self-identified White American Southerners have greater than 1 percent African ancestry.[75] Southern states with the highest African American populations, tended to have the highest percentages of self-identified White Americans unknowingly carrying hidden African ancestry.[76] White Americans (European Americans) on average are: 98.6 percent European, 0.19 percent African and 0.18 percent Native American. Inferred British/Irish ancestry is found in European Americans from all states at mean proportions of above 20%, and represents a majority of ancestry, above 50% mean proportion, in states such as Mississippi, Arkansas, and Tennessee. Scandinavian ancestry in European Americans is highly localized; most states show only trace mean proportions of Scandinavian ancestry, while it comprises a significant proportion, upwards of 10%, of ancestry in European Americans from Minnesota and the Dakotas.[75][76]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_...ispanic_Whites

    So, the haplogroups don't matter here, as they don't really say anything about autosomal DNA, and many white Americans who carry an Afram or Natam haplogroup, can at this point, be 100% European autosomal-wise, because after many generations of only breeding with other white Americans, all autosomal DNA from that African and/or native American ancestor, is gone. But the interesting question here, is if the non-European admixture in white Americans, will increase or decrease in this century and the next? Given the more liberal attitudes toward interracial marriages and relationships nowadays, it's likely to increase, but on the other hand, black Americans are continuously becoming whiter and whiter, due to one-sided gene flow from white Americans.
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    "DNA analysis on White Americans by geneticist Mark D. Shriver showed an average of 0.7% Sub-Saharan African admixture and 3.2% Native American admixture." "0.19 percent African and 0.18 percent Native American".

    Is anything even considered legitimate underneath the 1% mark as it could be considered 'statistical noise' or do this geneticists have access to some specialized equipment others do not that renders that result reliable ?

    Dna.land says I am 96% NorthWest European and 99% West Eurasian and since it does not say East Eurasian I suppose West Eurasian means I am 99% European. the 1% or 1.1% non-European is supposed to Oceanian but even if DNA.land is correct that admixture is likely from my British ancestry from the British colonial days in Australia or New Zealand. Also, not all calculators show it or if they do not all them show it above 1% which is not reliable.

    So I have no negro or amerindian blood at least not at any significant level.

    All my ancestors are from the East Coast, though, and I bet if you find yankees in which all their ancestors are from the East Coast they will be whiter since amerindian mixture happened during the expansion out west via the manifest destiny and negro admixture happened mostly in the southern states.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    Given the more liberal attitudes toward interracial marriages and relationships nowadays, it's likely to increase
    Not really or at least not significantly. Liberal propaganda or mainstream notions aside peoples' actions are what matters not what they ostensibly profess to believe or whatnot and the old dictum 'birds of a feather flock together' still rules the roust and most people whether black, white or asian etc... will continue to marry and breed with their own kind unless some kind of totalitarian liberal dictatorship forces them to do otherwise. Also, the mixed race category people tend to stick with their own mixed race kind and breed with them too.
    Last edited by Pendragon1; 2018-01-19 at 13:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon1 View Post
    Is anything even considered legitimate underneath the 1% mark as it could be considered 'statistical noise' or do this geneticists have access to some specialized equipment others do not that renders that result reliable ?
    If it's noise or real admixture, depends, on a lot of factors. For example, how many genome-wide SNPs the chip is testing; the more SNPs, the less likely it's noise, but also if they chose the best K= run, so to say, and if the population in question is known to have some history of interracial mixing, also how many generations back the admixture event was (the further back, the more likely to be noise), and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon1 View Post
    Dna.land says I am 96% NorthWest European and 99% West Eurasian and since it does not say East Eurasian I suppose West Eurasian means I am 99% European. the 1% or 1.1% non-European is supposed to Oceanian but even if DNA.land is correct that admixture is likely from my British ancestry from the British colonial days in Australia or New Zealand. Also, not all calculators show it or if they do not all them show it above 1% which is not reliable.

    So I have no negro or amerindian blood at least not at any significant level.

    All my ancestors are from the East Coast, though, and I bet if you find yankees in which all their ancestors are from the East Coast they will be whiter since amerindian mixture happened during the expansion out west via the manifest destiny and negro admixture happened mostly in the southern states.
    Didn't you score 1% sub-Saharan on some test?

    Anyway, 1% is not a big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon1 View Post
    Not really or at least not significantly. Liberal propaganda or mainstream notions aside peoples' actions are what matters not what they ostensibly profess to believe or whatnot and the old dictum 'birds of a feather flock together' still rules the roust and most people whether black, white or asian etc... will continue to marry and breed with their own kind unless some kind of totalitarian liberal dictatorship forces them to do otherwise. Also, the mixed race category people tend to stick with their own mixed race kind and breed with them too.
    I don't see how it'll decrease, given that it's more accepted than ever with interracial marriages. In the past, there were Jim Crow laws and one drop rule and all sorts of racial attitudes and similar group evolutionary strategies, which of course is why white Americans have much less non-European admixture than blacks and natives have European admixture, but nowadays, such attitudes is very taboo among whites.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    If it's noise or real admixture, depends, on a lot of factors. For example, how many genome-wide SNPs the chip is testing; the more SNPs, the less likely it's noise, but also if they chose the best K= run, so to say, and if the population in question is known to have some history of interracial mixing, also how many generations back the admixture event was (the further back, the more likely to be noise), and so on.

    Didn't you score 1% sub-Saharan on some test?

    Anyway, 1% is not a big deal
    These tests are not really reliable at that small level. If a test says I have black admixture it is in the vast majority of cases under 1% which can be statistical noise. I do sometimes score significant oceanian, East Asian, south Indian or siberian depending on the test but almost never above 2%. But the tests are not consistent with each other which means I can't take it seriously. Look at these various Eurogenes' calculator results using nMonte for example :

    Eurogenes K15

    1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
    Southwest_English Southeast_English North_Dutch Danish West_Scottish Irish Orcadian
    4.218637 4.301383 4.412743 4.776264 4.957267 5.015775 5.144900

    North_German
    6.143688

    1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"
    [1] "distance%=2.1513 / distance=0.021513"

    Kevin

    West_Norwegian 45.65
    Orcadian 33.85
    French_Basque 12.70
    Chechen 3.70
    Erzya 1.00
    Chuvash 0.80
    Mari 0.60
    Papuan 0.60
    Yoruban 0.55
    Norwegian 0.20
    Estonian 0.10
    Kargopol_Russian 0.05
    Mandenka 0.05
    Mayan 0.05
    Southwest_English 0.05
    Southwest_Finnish 0.05
    [1] "3. RESTRICTED nMONTE"

    [1] "distance%=1.8347 / distance=0.018347"

    Kevin

    Orcadian 46.35
    West_Norwegian 34.20
    French_Basque 11.30
    Erzya 4.45
    Chechen 3.70

    Eurogenes K13

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
    Irish Orcadian West_Scottish Southwest_English North_Dutch Danish Southeast_English Norwegian
    3.867299 4 .414148 4.824790 5.394238 5.464540 6.246231 6.295355 7.102232

    [1] "distance%=2.1513 / distance=0.021513"

    Irish 74.60
    Norwegian 6.20
    Swedish 4.75
    West_Scottish 4.60
    French_Basque 4.40
    Ossetian 1.70
    Selkup 1.25
    North_Ossetian 1.20
    Papuan 0.50
    Tabassaran 0.25
    Yoruban 0.20
    Bantu_S.E. 0.15
    Bantu_S.W. 0.05
    Chechen 0.05
    Kabardin 0.05
    Southwest_English 0.05

    [1] "3. RESTRICTED nMONTE"
    1] "distance%=2.2236 / distance=0.022236"

    Irish 86.15
    Swedish 4.75
    French_Basque 4.10
    North_Ossetian 3.40
    Selkup 1.60
    Norwegian 0.00
    Ossetian 0.00
    West_Scottish 0.00

    Eurogenes Eutest

    Orcadian Cornish IE Scottish English NL West_Central_German
    2.582518 2.936035 2.942414 3.634171 4.973269 5.759922 6.994162

    DK
    7.564020


    [1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"

    [1] "distance%=0.8694 / distance=0.008694"

    me

    Scottish 61.25
    English 27.45
    FR 4.40
    French_Basque 3.15
    South_Indian 1.50
    LIT 1.35
    Yoruba 0.55
    Nganassan 0.30
    GE 0.05

    [1] "3. RESTRICTED nMONTE"

    [1] "distance%=1.0505 / distance=0.010505"

    me

    Scottish 64.35
    English 22.75
    FR 8.55
    South_Indian 1.60
    French_Basque 1.50
    LIT 1.25


    Eurogene's k36

    [1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCES"
    Central_Dutch Scotland North_Dutch NW-England German_North Denmark SE_England British_mixed
    6.688725 9.035007 9.168711 9.725556 9.751437 10.259029 10.285527 10.813948

    [1] "2. FULL TABLE nMONTE"

    [1] "distance%=6.0561 / distance=0.060561"

    kevin

    Central_Dutch 61.70
    North_Dutch 21.80
    Scotland 8.40
    Brahui_PAK 2.20
    Austria_Tyrol 2.10
    SW-England 0.80
    Burusho_PAK 0.70
    NW-England 0.70
    Biaka_Pygmy 0.30
    Sioux_SouthDakota 0.30
    Australia_Abo 0.25
    Ireland 0.20
    Melanesian 0.15
    Sa_Khoisan 0.10
    England_Cumberland 0.10
    Welsh 0.10
    Orcadian 0.05
    British_mixed 0.05

    [1] "3. RESTRICTED nMONTE"

    [1] "distance%=5.9524 / distance=0.059524"

    kevin

    Central_Dutch 84.40
    North_Dutch 10.55
    Brahui_PAK 3.00
    Scotland 2.05
    Austria_Tyrol 0.00

    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard
    I don't see how it'll decrease, given that it's more accepted than ever with interracial marriages. In the past, there were Jim Crow laws and one drop rule and all sorts of racial attitudes and similar group evolutionary strategies, which of course is why white Americans have much less non-European admixture than blacks and natives have European admixture, but nowadays, such attitudes is very taboo among whites.
    Despite present-day methods of long-distance travel which have reduced geographic isolation, and despite all of the migration, on the reproductive level the largest subspecies — Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid — remain isolated. The vast majority from these groups marry and procreate strictly within their own subspecies. And although one to two percent do marry interracially, the resulting offspring is mostly not bred back into the top-level subspecies but permanently added to the "mixed" group, because of the tendency of mixed-race people to marry and live among other mixed-race people. There is no question of that the largest subspecies are en masse blending into one homogeneous light-brown people, as some naively think, but rather they retain their isolated, divergent course, while a mixed-race group is forming next to them.
    Last edited by Pendragon1; 2018-01-19 at 14:36.

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    Anyway, look at my nMonte genetic distance from this population admixture according to Eurogenes K15 (none of these calculators are 'wrong' in their genetic distances from these populations they just use different population datasets so they are all right in a certain sense).

    Genetic distance=0.018347

    Kevin

    Orcadian 46.35
    West_Norwegian 34.20
    French_Basque 11.30
    Erzya 4.45
    Chechen 3.70

    So whatever non-European admixture I have has to be small. Apparently, I have some small Eastern European admixture which indicates possible insignificant amounts of mongol or siberian.

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    I don't think it will decrease, people in America are very tribal and only like marrying among their ethnic/race. Overall most white Americans are pure race, and only a slight minority have a small percentage of non-white, much smaller than what you'd find in white Latinos or white South Africans, and this is due to their racist laws.

    I don't think most blacks will get whiter, they will remain the same, the only difference will be regional differences. Most Aframs live in the south and most Afram southerners fall between 80-90% SSA, while a small minority scoring 100% or very close to it like the Gullah. And keep in mind that most biracial babies are not born in the south but the southwest (surprising most biracial babies are born to a white parent and Hispanic one which I would've sworn it was to an Asian and white parent)

    Like I mentioned, to my surprise, there are more half Hispanic and half white babies than half Asian and half white babies
    "Pew’s data shows that 42 percent of multiracial and multiethnic babies are born from one white parent and one hispanic parent, the most common mix. Babies from one Asian and one white parent make up 14 percent, with infants born from one black and one white parent making up 10 percent."

    But even I don't think the Hispanic population in the southwest will change because only a minority of us are having kids with non-Hispanic. And the same can be said about other races. Hispanics will not get whiter but remain the same like they have done so for hundreds of years since they have been living in the southwest since it use to belong to Mexico.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celph Titled View Post
    I don't think it will decrease, people in America are very tribal and only like marrying among their ethnic/race. Overall most white Americans are pure race, and only a slight minority have a small percentage of non-white, much smaller than what you'd find in white Latinos or white South Africans, and this is due to their racist laws.

    I don't think most blacks will get whiter, they will remain the same, the only difference will be regional differences. Most Aframs live in the south and most Afram southerners fall between 80-90% SSA, while a small minority scoring 100% or very close to it like the Gullah. And keep in mind that most biracial babies are not born in the south but the southwest (surprising most biracial babies are born to a white parent and Hispanic one which I would've sworn it was to an Asian and white parent)

    Like I mentioned, to my surprise, there are more half Hispanic and half white babies than half Asian and half white babies
    "Pew’s data shows that 42 percent of multiracial and multiethnic babies are born from one white parent and one hispanic parent, the most common mix. Babies from one Asian and one white parent make up 14 percent, with infants born from one black and one white parent making up 10 percent."

    But even I don't think the Hispanic population in the southwest will change because only a minority of us are having kids with non-Hispanic. And the same can be said about other races. Hispanics will not get whiter but remain the same like they have done so for hundreds of years since they have been living in the southwest since it use to belong to Mexico.
    I think you’re overthinking a bit here.

    And Most Gullah/gechee only score in the 80s or 90s. They may come close but I highly doubt they score 100%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quimbara View Post
    I think you’re overthinking a bit here.

    And Most Gullah/gechee only score in the 80s or 90s. They may come close but I highly doubt they score 100%.
    They have come out as 100% ssa, clearly this group has many individuals who score 100%





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    I think those figures are overstated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    I think those figures are overstated.
    very few blacks throughout the Americas score 100% African. I’m not saying they can’t tho

    But exactly how do we know these scores are from actual Gullah people?

    And it doesn’t show the entire results...some of the pics look sketchy also.

    One thing I notice tho...much lower Nigeria and Ghana component than expected...for me.

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