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Thread: Who is more Aryan - Germans or Poles? 🇩🇪 🇵🇱545 days old

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    If this is a simple question of who has more steppe ancestry, which is the only sane way to frame it, then it's obviously Poles. In general Eastern Europe, from south to north, seems to have more steppe than its latitudinal equivalent in Western Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDBG View Post
    If this is a simple question of who has more steppe ancestry, which is the only sane way to frame it, then it's obviously Poles. In general Eastern Europe, from south to north, seems to have more steppe than its latitudinal equivalent in Western Europe.
    Norwegians have more Steppe admixture than Belarusians:



    So technically, Germans should have more Yamnaya than Poles?
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Norwegians have more Steppe admixture than Belarusians:
    So technically, Germans should have more Yamnaya than Poles?
    I didn't have just the Haak analysis in mind but you'll notice the estimates of steppe-like ancestry change a bit when they add extra populations to get better fits in the supplement with e.g. Lithuanians getting more steppe than Norwegians when BedouinB and Nganasan are added. It's true that the correlation seems to break down the most when you reach far Northern Europe, though (and since we want to be pedantic, strictly speaking Norway is at a higher latitude than Belarus so the aforementioned Lithuania would be a better comparison) but it seems to generally hold for most of it, though it's not everywhere a really ancient one but also seemingly shaped by more recent events (like e.g. the Slavic expansion but we need more data for a good time-series).

    Your 'technically' is a bit of a non-sequitur too. Poles definitely have more steppe ancestry than Germans on average, at any rate. Their position on the PCA is kinda telling too: more WHG and steppe in Poland compared to more Anatolia in Germany.
    Last edited by DDBG; 2018-02-18 at 22:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Shouldn't that be Poles?
    i didn't see enough results to make a conclusion on the steppe component
    but poles without any doubt carry more whg-shg than germans and austrians ..... acording to this test
    and the most barbarian whg are: finnis ,lithaunians ,latvians and estonians and poles not far behind....
    the killer look :)

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    ^ Hyperborean Barboroi, Ugh!
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    Wojewoda, I don’t know what you mean by Aryan. You should define it first. This word is ambiguous.
    Poles and Northern Slavs are direct descendents of Proto-Indo-Europeans. They have never left PIE homeland. This is what linguist have been saying and it is now confirmed by genetics.
    Germanic origin on the other hand is very uncertain. Their genetic history is not clear, their language is mixed with large not-IE component.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DDBG View Post
    I didn't have just the Haak analysis in mind but you'll notice the estimates of steppe-like ancestry change a bit when they add extra populations to get better fits in the supplement with e.g. Lithuanians getting more steppe than Norwegians when BedouinB and Nganasan are added. It's true that the correlation seems to break down the most when you reach far Northern Europe, though (and since we want to be pedantic, strictly speaking Norway is at a higher latitude than Belarus so the aforementioned Lithuania would be a better comparison) but it seems to generally hold for most of it, though it's not everywhere a really ancient one but also seemingly shaped by more recent events (like e.g. the Slavic expansion but we need more data for a good time-series).

    Your 'technically' is a bit of a non-sequitur too. Poles definitely have more steppe ancestry than Germans on average, at any rate. Their position on the PCA is kinda telling too: more WHG and steppe in Poland compared to more Anatolia in Germany.
    The authors state by adding Bedouin B and Nganasan to the admixture analysis that residuals increase for both Northeastern and Southeastern Europe.

    Elias once ignored this though trying to argue Finns have 70-80% Yamanaya admixture, what a bunch of rubbish. Which is the equivalent to saying Sicilians or Jews are near pure Early Neolithic farmers...it's false.

    Another problem with Haak's admixture analysis is that they did not use Anatolian-Aegean farmers for his admixture charts, rather they used LBK farmers..whom have around 10% WHG ancestry when compared to Anatolian-Aegean farmers. So basically Haak's model true WHG ancestry should increase slightly in all groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    The authors state by adding Bedouin B and Nganasan to the admixture analysis that residuals increase for both Northeastern and Southeastern Europe.

    Elias once ignored this though trying to argue Finns have 70-80% Yamanaya admixture
    Your inferiority complex is really getting annoying, you understand that, right? I didn't "ignore" anything. That was years ago, before ancient DNA got started, and back then we were discussing the northern European component being the proto-Indo-European component, which it more or less is, and Finns, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians got around 70-80% of the northern European component, and Indians, Kurds, Persians, Afghans and Pakis, registered non-negligible amounts of the northern European component. Hence, the obvious conclusion was that the northern European component, is the proto-Indo-European component. Of course this caused massive butthurt among you southern Europeans and Dienekes went into aggressive hysteria mode and so on. Turns out, northern Europeans register up to 50% of the Yamnaya component, which is basically what Finns get when you add Nganasan and Bedouin B into the equation, so yeah, northern European component = Yamnaya component. It's not my fault that Dienekes didn't add Bedouin B and Nganasan in Dodecad K12a

    Anyway, go preach about how Gamkrelidze and Ivanov are onto something, and similar inferiority complex rhetoric.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    what a bunch of rubbish. Which is the equivalent to saying Sicilians or Jews are near pure Early Neolithic farmers...it's false.
    I don't think I've ever said they are pure ENF, but certainly they're far genetically closer to ENF than they are to the PIE

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Another problem with Haak's admixture analysis is that they did not use Anatolian-Aegean farmers for his admixture charts, rather they used LBK farmers..whom have around 10% WHG ancestry when compared to Anatolian-Aegean farmers. So basically Haak's model true WHG ancestry should increase slightly in all groups.
    So Haak's model is flawed, what else is new?
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Your inferiority complex is really getting annoying, you understand that, right? I didn't "ignore" anything. That was years ago, before ancient DNA got started, and back then we were discussing the northern European component being the proto-Indo-European component, which it more or less is, and Finns, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians got around 70-80% of the northern European component, and Indians, Kurds, Persians, Afghans and Pakis, registered non-negligible amounts of the northern European component. Hence, the obvious conclusion was that the northern European component, is the proto-Indo-European component. Of course this caused massive butthurt among you southern Europeans and Dienekes went into aggressive hysteria mode and so on. Turns out, northern Europeans register up to 50% of the Yamnaya component, which is basically what Finns get when you add Nganasan and Bedouin B into the equation, so yeah, northern European component = Yamnaya component. It's not my fault that Dienekes didn't add Bedouin B and Nganasan ino
    What "Northern European" component? You mean the old 'Northern European' admixture component in Dienekes Globe13 and Globe12 ADMIXTURE runs? Uhh obviously that component cannot be a "PIE component" or a synonom for the Yamnaya component since its higher in pre IE Western Hunter Gatherers like La Brana man who were 0% IE and Yamnaya admixed than it is in modern Northern Europeans. What a Dipshit. Its a component that far predates the Proto Indo Europeans and is much higher in completely non IE WHGs than in the Yamnaya. That old "North European" component was distributed all throughout Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic Europe....Sure the Yamnaya would have carried plenty of it since they were half Mesolithic EHG but Its distribution can't even come close to being accurately ascribed to simply a.Bronze age steppe expansion. Get a clue dude.
    Last edited by Arch Hades; 2018-02-20 at 05:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastPole_ View Post
    Wojewoda, I don’t know what you mean by Aryan. You should define it first. This word is ambiguous.
    Poles and Northern Slavs are direct descendents of Proto-Indo-Europeans. They have never left PIE homeland. This is what linguist have been saying and it is now confirmed by genetics.
    Germanic origin on the other hand is very uncertain. Their genetic history is not clear, their language is mixed with large not-IE component.
    I think we can allow this ambiguity in this thread. Of course there is German interpretation of this term:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Aryan: Nordic and Germanic

    Hitler made references to an "Aryan Race" founding a superior type of humanity. The purest stock of Aryans according to Nazi ideology was the Nordic people of Germany, England, Denmark, The Netherlands, Sweden and Norway.[1] The Nazis claimed that Germanic people specifically represented a southern branch of the Aryan-Nordic population.[2] The Nazis did not consider all Germans to be of the Nordic type (which predominated the north), and stated that Germany also had a large "Alpine" population (identified by, among other features, shorter height and higher incidences of darker hair and eyes). Hitler and Nazi racial theorist Hans F. K. Günther framed this as an issue to be corrected through selective breeding for "Nordic" traits.
    ... as there is German interpretation of the term "subhuman" (see the thread: "Who is more subhuman ("Untermensch") - Jews or Poles? ", but I don't think anyone is obliged to agree with German views on the matter.
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2018-02-20 at 07:41.

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