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Thread: Genetic differences within Ireland and data from 2 studies.549 days old

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    Default Genetic differences within Ireland and data from 2 studies.

    Irish DNA Atlas has a lot of information about Ireland and the genetic differences within. Here are some of my own observations and relevant data from the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17124-4

    "The Irish population can be divided in 10 distinct geographically stratified genetic clusters; seven of ‘Gaelic’ Irish ancestry, and three of shared Irish-British ancestry.In addition we observe a major genetic barrier to the north of Ireland in Ulster. Using a reference of 6,760 European individuals and two ancient Irish genomes, we demonstrate high levels of North-West French-like and West Norwegian-like ancestry within Ireland. We show that that our ‘Gaelic’ Irish clusters present homogenous levels of ancient Irish ancestries. We additionally detect admixture events that provide evidence of Norse-Viking gene flow into Ireland, and reflect the Ulster Plantations."

    This dendrogram shows that all of Ireland clusters together, with the exception of the Northern Ireland cluster consisting of people of mixed Irish and British ancestry, and that Scotland clusters with the rest of Britain by comparison.

    Of the Irish clusters, Munster in far southern Ireland and the Gaelic Ulster cluster seem most divergent from the rest of the island, possibly reflecting greater isolation from Britain. Contrary to expectations of many, Connacht in far western Ireland is most similar to Leinster and to the Dublin cluster. Ireland's clusters appear to fall neatly within the provincial boundaries, because Irish provinces' borders were formed based on clans and tribes.

    "The Ulster cluster itself shows the greatest genetic distance from Britain, in both our PCA and Fst analysis, despite its geographic proximity to Britain. Given that we have identified groups within the north of Ireland that do have genetic links to Britain, i.e. the N Ireland clusters, Ulster most likely represents individuals of ‘Gaelic’ ancestry that have remained genetically isolated from Britain – which reflects the demographic and political history of the region."



    No one in Ireland is close to Basques or Spaniards. People often say that western Ireland is a hotbed of Basque-like individuals, but this is not true. All Irish are closer to the British than to anyone else, and western Ireland does not have any more "southern" ancestry than the rest of the island, AND on top of that, Connacht in western Ireland is genetically closer to people in Leinster and Dublin on the east coast.

    French-like ancestry is highest in Ireland and the parts of Britain with less Anglo-Saxon input (Cornwall, western England, and SW Scotland). Ireland is differentiated form Britain (including most Scots) due to having less German-like ancestry and more Scandinavian ancestry. Here, we see that the Ulster and South Munster clusters have the least input that is neither French-like nor Scandinavian-like, implying less input from Britain than the rest of Ireland.



    The study also found that in Ireland, there has been little migration across the border of Leinster and Munster, and very little migration to the extreme west coast of Connacht, as well as a genetic barrier between Gaelic Ulster and the descendants of Scottish and English planters (Protestant Northern Irish).

    The Insular Celtic paper, which also came out stated:

    "South Munster (SMN) and Cork (CRK) clusters branch off first in the fineSTRUCTURE tree and show distinct separation from their neighbouring north Munster clusters (NMN), indicating that south Munster’s haplotypic makeup is more distinct from its neighbouring regions and the remaining regions than any other cluster. TVD analysis supports this observation (S1 Table and S3 Table), with the Cork cluster in particular showing strong differentiation from other clusters. This may reflect the persistent isolating effects of the mountain ranges surrounding the south Munster counties of Cork and Kerry, restricting gene flow with the rest of Ireland and preserving older structure."



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    What are people's thoughts?

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    What are people's thoughts? I wonder why there is disageeement in the studies about if South Munster or Ulster is most isolated/most "Irish".

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    I don't understand why anyone thinks Basques reached Ireland anyway. Not exactly known as a seafaring people in ancient times.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    I don't understand why anyone thinks Basques reached Ireland anyway. Not exactly known as a seafaring people in ancient times.
    No idea. But it looks like Iberians have much more British/Irish like admixture than the reverse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    Irish DNA Atlas has a lot of information about Ireland and the genetic differences within. Here are some of my own observations and relevant data from the study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-17124-4

    "The Irish population can be divided in 10 distinct geographically stratified genetic clusters; seven of ‘Gaelic’ Irish ancestry, and three of shared Irish-British ancestry.In addition we observe a major genetic barrier to the north of Ireland in Ulster. Using a reference of 6,760 European individuals and two ancient Irish genomes, we demonstrate high levels of North-West French-like and West Norwegian-like ancestry within Ireland. We show that that our ‘Gaelic’ Irish clusters present homogenous levels of ancient Irish ancestries. We additionally detect admixture events that provide evidence of Norse-Viking gene flow into Ireland, and reflect the Ulster Plantations."

    This dendrogram shows that all of Ireland clusters together, with the exception of the Northern Ireland cluster consisting of people of mixed Irish and British ancestry, and that Scotland clusters with the rest of Britain by comparison.

    Of the Irish clusters, Munster in far southern Ireland and the Gaelic Ulster cluster seem most divergent from the rest of the island, possibly reflecting greater isolation from Britain. Contrary to expectations of many, Connacht in far western Ireland is most similar to Leinster and to the Dublin cluster. Ireland's clusters appear to fall neatly within the provincial boundaries, because Irish provinces' borders were formed based on clans and tribes.

    "The Ulster cluster itself shows the greatest genetic distance from Britain, in both our PCA and Fst analysis, despite its geographic proximity to Britain. Given that we have identified groups within the north of Ireland that do have genetic links to Britain, i.e. the N Ireland clusters, Ulster most likely represents individuals of ‘Gaelic’ ancestry that have remained genetically isolated from Britain – which reflects the demographic and political history of the region."



    No one in Ireland is close to Basques or Spaniards. People often say that western Ireland is a hotbed of Basque-like individuals, but this is not true. All Irish are closer to the British than to anyone else, and western Ireland does not have any more "southern" ancestry than the rest of the island, AND on top of that, Connacht in western Ireland is genetically closer to people in Leinster and Dublin on the east coast.

    French-like ancestry is highest in Ireland and the parts of Britain with less Anglo-Saxon input (Cornwall, western England, and SW Scotland). Ireland is differentiated form Britain (including most Scots) due to having less German-like ancestry and more Scandinavian ancestry. Here, we see that the Ulster and South Munster clusters have the least input that is neither French-like nor Scandinavian-like, implying less input from Britain than the rest of Ireland.



    The study also found that in Ireland, there has been little migration across the border of Leinster and Munster, and very little migration to the extreme west coast of Connacht, as well as a genetic barrier between Gaelic Ulster and the descendants of Scottish and English planters (Protestant Northern Irish).

    The Insular Celtic paper, which also came out stated:

    "South Munster (SMN) and Cork (CRK) clusters branch off first in the fineSTRUCTURE tree and show distinct separation from their neighbouring north Munster clusters (NMN), indicating that south Munster’s haplotypic makeup is more distinct from its neighbouring regions and the remaining regions than any other cluster. TVD analysis supports this observation (S1 Table and S3 Table), with the Cork cluster in particular showing strong differentiation from other clusters. This may reflect the persistent isolating effects of the mountain ranges surrounding the south Munster counties of Cork and Kerry, restricting gene flow with the rest of Ireland and preserving older structure."


    These new high powered studies coming out just go to show commercial DNA tests and GEDmatch are outdated crap. I dunno, maybe livingDNA can integrate this stuff and beat the other commercial tests.

    Either your intrepation us wrong or incomplete, ancestryDNA is way off or this study is wrong. I incline towards the former two.

    According to AncestryDNA I am so supposedly ' Ulster Irish' but they also say I am 52% Irish, Scottish , and Welsh, 37% Anglo-Saxon and 6 % Scandinavian etc.... which is just an estimate but that would mean the ethnic difference between me and a Scot from Argyll or Ulster would be very small.

    However, there are other genetic tests like MyHeritage and gencove. Myheritage says I am 40% Anglo-Saxon, about 22% Scandinavian or something and about 35% Irish, Scottish, and Welsh and gencove says I am mostly some indistinguishable mix of Irish/German/English, about 25% northern British and 17% Scandinavian.

    Anyway, yeah, all these commercial test are shit and GEDmatch e.g. Eurogenes and Dodecad are are retarded Polack science and stupified slavicized WOG Greek monkey science.

    Everyone knows that even taking into consideration Madame Curry and Copernicus into account that Polack science is retarded the Nazis had V2 rockets and Jet airplanes etc... WTF did Polacks have ? Vehicles with tires made out of snow ?

    I do not why idiots here think GEDmatch is so great. However, WTF do I know ? I am just some Ulster Irish Gaelic monkey that is radically different from the British with no German or Germanic blood right ?
    Last edited by Pendragon1; 2018-03-23 at 17:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon1 View Post
    These new high powered studies coming out just go to show commercial DNA tests and GEDmatch are outdated cheap. I dunno, maybe livingDNA can integrate this stuff and beat the other commercial tests.
    Why would these new studies be better than GEDmatch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon1 View Post
    I do not why idiots here think GEDmatch is so great.
    It's not that GEDmatch is great, it's just that DNA companies suck at interpreting the raw data, and population geneticists have their issues too with it.

    At the end of the day, it doesn't hurt to have third party verification and open source testing of the raw data, be it modern, extant populations/individuals or ancient DNA specimen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon1 View Post
    However, WTF do I know ? I am just some Ulster Irish Gaelic monkey that is radically different from the British with no German or Germanic blood right ?
    Not every Irish study is about your admixture scores, please try to discuss the study.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2018-03-23 at 17:14.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendragon1 View Post
    According to AncestryDNA I am so supposedly ' Ulster Irish' but they also say I am 52% Irish, Scottish , and Welsh, 37% Anglo-Saxon and 6 % Scandinavian etc.... which is just an estimate but that would mean the ethnic difference between me and a Scot from Argyll or Ulster would be very small.

    However, there are other genetic tests like MyHeritage and gencove. Myheritage says I am 40% Anglo-Saxon, about 22% Scandinavian or something and about 35% Irish, Scottish, and Welsh and gencove says I am mostly some indistinguishable mix of Irish/German/English, about 25% northern British and 17% Scandinavian.
    They don't have such category like "Anglo-Saxon" because their tests are not based on ancient samples. And modern English/British people are very far from being descended exclusively from Anglo-Saxons.

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    "we demonstrate high levels of North-West French-like and West Norwegian-like ancestry within Ireland."

    Yeah, what up gangstaz ? The name is Burke/DeBurgh/DeBurca and my family has been down with the William the Conqueror since about 1066 AD. I ain't straight outta Compton like NWA I am straight out of Norway, NorthWestern France and Ireland or in other words more or less Normandy France. Yeah, ain't no thing (double negative) that we rape , pillaged and conquered England and much of Western Europe. Niggaz whose down with my posse ? Voulez-vous parlez francais avec moi ?



    Last edited by Pendragon1; 2018-03-23 at 18:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tauromenion View Post
    No idea. But it looks like Iberians have much more British/Irish like admixture than the reverse.
    Isn't that Scandinavian admixture from the Visigoths or something like that? It could be Celtic admixture from the original continental Celts though, I guess.
    ReactOS <--- support this project so that we can get rid of Windows!
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    “The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance.” ― Socrates

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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    How long will it take to integrate these findings into the commercial DNA tests? With roots in Counties Cavan & Monaghan as well as up in Derry, I'd sure like to refine my Irish DNA into the proper categories sooner rather than later.

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