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Thread: Altruism of Whites122 days old

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager View Post
    Please explain.
    The book and the quote do that.
    No they're not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Farewell_to_Alms
    "In Britain, however, as disease continually killed off poorer members of society, their positions in society were taken over by the sons of the wealthy. In that way, according to Clark, less violent, more literate and more hard-working behaviour - middle-class values - were spread culturally and biologically throughout the population."
    Quote Originally Posted by mary
    There was no poverty in the Soviet time. It was only in the 80's that it started to happen due to incompetent leadership. People in the Soviet Union lived better than Americans do today.

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  3. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldPretan View Post
    The book and the quote do that.
    So why are the modern Brits so violent, especially the English working class.

    Is it drink?

    Is it some residual resentment deriving from the fact that continental Europeans don't seem to recognise the part played by Britain in liberating western Europe from Nazi rule?

    Is it the strong immigrant Irish element in the English urban working class.
    The Irish have, or had, a big reputation for drinking and brawling.
    YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINIONS... BUT NOT YOUR OWN FACTS.

  4. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager View Post
    So why are the modern Brits so violent, especially the English working class.

    Is it drink?

    Is it some residual resentment deriving from the fact that continental Europeans don't seem to recognise the part played by Britain in liberating western Europe from Nazi rule?

    Is it the strong immigrant Irish element in the English urban working class.
    The Irish have, or had, a big reputation for drinking and brawling.
    I posted a thread on another forum, honour cultures vs shame cultures. I should post it here. It’s just a term for the way different cultures maintain the social order.

    The British and Irish have an honour culture. Honour cultures are usually more violent than shame cultures.

    Relevant to this thread, honour cultures also tend to be more altruistic though... but among white people, the British, Irish and white Americans are the only strong honour cultures (some sociologists will point out the difference between Americans and Canadians, so alike but so different, to show the difference between honour cultures and shame cultures, as Canadians are a shame culture).
    Last edited by DragonRouge; 2018-06-14 at 13:43.

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  6. #154
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    The reason honour cultures are more altruistic is because that is viewed as honourable behaviour to take the initiative and help people out in their communities when they fall on hard times. Somebody posted in this thread that conservatives are more altruistic, I think this would make sense when you consider honour cultures vs shame cultures, conservatives generally want smaller government and a smaller social safety net. Shame cultures probably have to be motivated by shame in order to help somebody out, and by then it could be too late, so a government needs to step in and set a rule because a broken rule, like say, not paying taxes, is needed in order to motivate shame.

    I highlighted the difference between Americans (honour culture) and Canadians (shame culture) earlier in this thread: Your neighbour loses their job, an American would more likely react by helping them out financially themselves, feeding them, their church group or whatever might rally around the family and have a donation drive to help them pay their bills. Americans also donate more to charity. A Canadian, on the other hand, would be more likely to advise their neighbour to call Service Canada (the government) and apply for benefits, and if something happens like a natural disaster when charity donations are urgently needed, the government has to match donations dollar for dollar in order to motivate people to donate.

    And I think capitalism is more appealing to honour cultures because it relies much on honour when doing business. Honour is required in the relationship between a private business and their clients, companies that are perceived to lack honour do not survive on the free market. Also, with loans, a bank is trusting you to pay it back, and a credit rating works pretty much the same as honour. You don’t pay your bills, banks are less likely to loan you money. So this could also be another conservative connection.

    But I would argue, governments aside, that Canadians are more conservative than Americans, just in a different way, so the very notion of conservatism is different in honour cultures than it is in shame cultures. Shame cultures generally have more strict dress and speech codes, as well as more unwritten social rules, and rules in general. People in shame cultures are more likely to go out of their way not to offend people, and one thing I noticed myself about the US is that office dress codes, and office culture in general, is more relaxed in the US than Canada. I work in tech, and I know some Americans as well as Pakistanis (also an honour culture) who have said Canadians can be too conservative and this stifles innovation and makes it harder to do business here (It’s harder to think differently, or to make it as an entrepreneur, in a shame culture). Canadian political conservatism traces its origins back to European communitarian conservatism, which is very elitist as well as rules and order based, and generally skeptical of free markets (the Conservative Party here was historically the more protectionist party), and shame cultures generally place more emphasis on rules and order. American political conservatism is more capitalistic and free market based.

    In terms of governments, honour cultures tend to have less centralized and smaller governments, and the theory is that honour cultures developed because certain conditions made it harder to implement a government that served all people sufficiently. Governments in shame cultures tend to be larger and more centralized, with more complex bureaucracy, processes, and rules.

    So while honour cultures can be more violent than shame cultures, they are much more altruistic, innovative, and I would say friendlier as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRouge View Post
    The British and Irish have an honour culture.
    Eh...what??
    The Future was better before

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    Eh...what??
    Look at my explanation. It doesn’t mean they are more honourable, and all cultures have concepts of honour and shame, but in anthropological terms, there are honour cultures and shame cultures, and they refer to the ways a culture reinforces social order.

    Pretty much in simple terms:

    Honour culture: more violent, but also more altruistic
    Shame cultures: less violent, but also less altruistic

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRouge View Post
    Look at my explanation. It doesn’t mean they are more honourable, and all cultures have concepts of honour and shame, but in anthropological terms, there are honour cultures and shame cultures, and they refer to the ways a culture reinforces social order.

    Pretty much in simple terms:

    Honour culture: more violent, but also more altruistic
    Shame cultures: less violent, but also less altruistic
    What are Nordics then?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janos View Post
    What are Nordics then?
    Not sure. Historically an honour culture, and I would assume still today, but today you guys seem smack in the middle, taking the best of shame culture (orderliness and politeness) and the best of honour cultures (trust and altruism).

    Cultures change over time, too, though.

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