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Thread: Corvids shall evolve and replace mankind.97 days old

  1. #11
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    They'll have to survive US first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power77 View Post
    Actually, birds may have evolved from pterosaurs. Those are still archosaurs though.
    That is total crap!
    Scientists have already grown bird embryos with raptor features as bird DNA has hidden genes from dinosaurs... seriously! I don't think there is any debate.
    http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...ce-of-dinosaur

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    How do we know these “reptilian” features are theropod traits rather than generic archosaurian ones? Let’s not use circular reasoning, shall we? Moreover, it’s not like these scientists have ancient DNA from pterosaurs (or theropods for that matter) that they can compare to birds either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power77 View Post
    How do we know these “reptilian” features are theropod traits rather than generic archosaurian ones? Let’s not use circular reasoning, shall we? Moreover, it’s not like these scientists have ancient DNA from pterosaurs (or theropods for that matter) that they can compare to birds either.
    Please educate yourself. It's not even a debate anymore in the scientific world.
    Birds have a fused wishbone which is the distinguishing characteristic of the classification of theropod dinosaurs not pterosaurs.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h71vEJF6alc
    and
    https://www.livescience.com/50886-sc...o-chicken.html
    Last edited by thetick; 2018-04-17 at 06:17.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    He was being ironic of course.

    If we go extinct, we're most likely to be replaced by some other primate species that eventually evolves high intelligence. Or maybe dolphins become more intelligent and adapt themselves back on land again. Or maybe elephants radically evolve their physique into bipedalism, grow fingers and shit.

    We could of course be replaced by some bird species, there's plenty of them and one bird species could eventually evolve high intelligence (parrots are not a bad candidate btw, they have already evolved speech, so they're like halfway there). But what's required to replace us, isn't just high intelligence, but also bipedalism and two free limbs (or more) with fingers, so that you can build stuff, and of course, speech. Without speech, we'd still be hunter-gatherers today. Do not underestimate the power of the spoken word.

    Philosophy ---> Evolution

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    Don’t underestimate crows. They are pretty damn smart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonRouge View Post
    Don’t underestimate crows. They are pretty damn smart.
    Not underestimating them, but this:

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    They'll have to survive US first.
    ^^ And that's the bottom line. They'd have to make it in the next 1,000 years before they'll ever reach human-level intelligence. And hell, going by the rate of the current extinction process, it's unlikely that crows will ever reach serious intelligence.

    It's very difficult for a species, any species, to reach radio telescope intelligence, which is what crows would need to be our "equals".

    @Power77 : birds are definitely dinosaurs.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2018-04-17 at 08:34.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    ^^ And that's the bottom line. They'd have to make it in the next 1,000 years before they'll ever reach human-level intelligence. And hell, going by the rate of current extinction process, it's unlikely that crows will ever reach serious intelligence.

    It's very difficult for a species, any species, to reach radio telescope intelligence, which is what crows would need to be our "equals".
    But don't you think it's strange that the intellect of many species of corvids rivals Greater Apes? Crows and ravens are just as smart, if not more, than chimpanzees, yet they have comparatively smaller brains. It could be that their neural circuitry is more optimized and robust. Mammals and birds evolutionary diverged 300 million years, so this more of an example of convergent evolution. They both have high encephalization quotient though.

    Also, crows can actually discriminate human faces. There have been behavioral studies that have shown the crows can remember a human's face and warn their flock about the individual.
    Last edited by An Shigao; 2018-04-17 at 09:13.

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    In what ways are Corvids smarter than chimps? I think that's a reach. The more we study chimps, the more we find how similar to humans they are in behavior. Chimp have even been observed to have entered their own stone age era as if late. I think the greater apes, elephants, dolphins, and many whale species have Corvids beat in intelligence. Us mammals are some brainy bad asses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saru21 View Post
    In what ways are Corvids smarter than chimps? I think that's a reach.
    It's not. I've researched this extensively. New Caledonian Crows rival chimps in terms of critical thinking skills. In fact, they surpass them in many regards. I've recommended literature and documentaries where you can view the behavioral studies.

    Here's just a small clip giving an idea of what they are capable of:





    The more we study chimps, the more we find how similar to humans they are in behavior.
    I'm looking more at intelligence though. Of course the way bonobos and chimps interact with each other would parallel us more, since we had a more recent common ancestor, but some species of corvids are on equal level of intelligence due to convergent evolution.

    Chimp have even been observed to have entered their own stone age era as if late. I think the greater apes, elephants, dolphins, and many whale species have Corvids beat in intelligence. Us mammals are some brainy bad asses.
    That's what you'd think if you didn't actually look over the sources I referenced. Corvids are on equal level or higher than Greater Apes. New research has been pointing to this.

    That's not to say that the other animals you've listed aren't intelligent or cool either.
    Last edited by An Shigao; 2018-04-17 at 08:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    But don't you think it's strange that the intellect of many species of corvids rivals Greater Apes?
    Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Crows and ravens are just as smart, if not more, than chimpanzees, yet they have comparatively smaller brains.
    Word among neuroscientists, is that intelligence isn't primarily determined by how big the brain is, but rather, how big it is in relation to the specimen's body size. I think that seems reasonable. Otherwise, whales would be ruling the planet.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    It could be that their neural circuitry is more optimized and robust.
    Maybe. It's probably a matter of having the right IQ genotypes that "unlock" higher intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Human beings and birds evolutionary diverged 300 million years, so this more of an example of convergent evolution. They both have high encephalization quotient though.
    Humans weren't around 300 million years ago, maybe proto-mammals were, I'm not sure, have to check it out. But one of the earliest primate specimen, is the lemur-like darwinius, and that's like a 50 million years old species.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Also, crows can actually discriminate human faces. There have been behavioral studies that have shown the crows can remember a human's face and warn their flock about the individual.
    That's impressive. It means they have a high enough intelligence to be aware of danger. But then again, can't dogs and cats also distinguish human faces?

    Anyway, going by neurons alone, we're only beaten by the African elephant and the long-finned pilot whale:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ber_of_neurons

    Raven, apparently the most intelligent corvid species, isn't all that impressive going by that list. Gorillas seem far more intelligent than ravens. But if I'm reading those two charts right after a quick glance, ravens seem to be more intelligent than cats, and almost equal to dogs, so that's always something.

    Two lists, one with neurons in the whole brain/nervous system, and one with neurons in the cerebral cortex. So while the African elephant beats us with like 3 times more neurons in the whole brain, it does not beat us with neurons in the cortex. This is probably why humans have the edge we do, over other species.
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