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Thread: Humans in California 130 000 years ago?7 days old

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    Default Humans in California 130 000 years ago?

    Here is the abstract:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature22065

    Quote Originally Posted by Nature
    The earliest dispersal of humans into North America is a contentious subject, and proposed early sites are required to meet the following criteria for acceptance: (1) archaeological evidence is found in a clearly defined and undisturbed geologic context; (2) age is determined by reliable radiometric dating; (3) multiple lines of evidence from interdisciplinary studies provide consistent results; and (4) unquestionable artefacts are found in primary context1,2. Here we describe the Cerutti Mastodon (CM) site, an archaeological site from the early late Pleistocene epoch, where in situ hammerstones and stone anvils occur in spatio-temporal association with fragmentary remains of a single mastodon (Mammut americanum). The CM site contains spiral-fractured bone and molar fragments, indicating that breakage occured while fresh. Several of these fragments also preserve evidence of percussion. The occurrence and distribution of bone, molar and stone refits suggest that breakage occurred at the site of burial. Five large cobbles (hammerstones and anvils) in the CM bone bed display use-wear and impact marks, and are hydraulically anomalous relative to the low-energy context of the enclosing sandy silt stratum. 230Th/U radiometric analysis of multiple bone specimens using diffusion–adsorption–decay dating models indicates a burial date of 130.7 ± 9.4 thousand years ago. These findings confirm the presence of an unidentified species of Homo at the CM site during the last interglacial period (MIS 5e; early late Pleistocene), indicating that humans with manual dexterity and the experiential knowledge to use hammerstones and anvils processed mastodon limb bones for marrow extraction and/or raw material for tool production. Systematic proboscidean bone reduction, evident at the CM site, fits within a broader pattern of Palaeolithic bone percussion technology in Africa3,4,5,6, Eurasia7,8,9 and North America10,11,12. The CM site is, to our knowledge, the oldest in situ, well-documented archaeological site in North America and, as such, substantially revises the timing of arrival of Homo into the Americas.
    1) Do you think these findings are authentic?

    2) Does this paper pose a problem for the accepted theories on the peopling of the New World?

    3) Are skeptics right or wrong in dismissing this paper as “sensationalist bunk”?

    4) Is it only a matter of time till archeologists (and/or paleontologists) find more archeological sites of this nature?

    5) Do you personally think that the Americas were peopled much earlier than science says? Whether your answer is “yes” or “no”, provide an explanation.
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    Interesting. I wonder who they were? The only problem is the slight circumstantial nature of the evidence, but it depends on how certain the interpretation is.
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    It's difficult to say, but at 130kya, they were basically Negroes, or proto-Negroids. I find it hard to believe though, that humans reached the Americas that far back, because if they did, odds are their group must have survived, and populated the continent much earlier. So the Americas would have had a much larger population by the time Europeans arrived.
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    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ology-science/

    However, many of the world’s leading experts in American archaeology already have expressed some form of skepticism to the paper’s claims. Some have rejected it outright.

    “The earliest occupation of the Americas is a highly contentious subject,” says University of Southampton archaeologist John McNabb. “The date of the find at 130,000 years ago is a really big ask for archaeologists who are used to talking about 12, 13, 14,000 years ago. It’s a big, big time difference.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    It's difficult to say, but at 130kya, they were basically Negroes, or proto-Negroids. I find it hard to believe though, that humans reached the Americas that far back, because if they did, odds are their group must have survived, and populated the continent much earlier. So the Americas would have had a much larger population by the time Europeans arrived.
    1) They could just as easily have been Australoids or Proto-Australoids.

    2) Australia and New Guinea also had small populations by the time Europeans arrived. Yet, most scientists agree that these two areas were peopled long, long time ago.

    3) The Upper Paleolithic (as well as the Mesolithic) had rather small human populations. Such a demographic situation was better preserved in the Sahul and (interestingly) the Americas than in most parts of the Old World.
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    I've witnessed this study before. Another source mentions that the scientists claim they might be Neanderthals. Quite consistent with the admixture in Native Americans:





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    Quote Originally Posted by Power77 View Post
    1) They could just as easily have been Australoids or Proto-Australoids.
    Of course 130kya, there were no Australoids or proto-Australoids either. Back then, all of humanity were basically "fresh off the boat" Negro-like, and didn't belong to any of the modern races. 130kya was basically just after Out of Africa. That alone makes it a bit difficult to accept that they got all the way to the Americas, that fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Power77 View Post
    2) Australia and New Guinea also had small populations by the time Europeans arrived. Yet, most scientists agree that these two areas were peopled long, long time ago.
    That's because Australoids had no agriculture. Agriculture = population boom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sun Shield Pakal View Post
    I've witnessed this study before. Another source mentions that the scientists claim they might be Neanderthals. Quite consistent with the admixture in Native Americans:
    The Neanderthal admixture in native Americans has nothing to do with a possible Neanderthal present in the Americas (highly unlikely that they actually got there, anyway). All Eurasians (which includes Australoids and native Americans) got their Neanderthal admixture from just after the early OOA event.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Neanderthal present in the Americas (highly unlikely that they actually got there, anyway). All Eurasians (which includes Australoids and native Americans) got their Neanderthal admixture from just after the early OOA event.
    I won't claim there were Neanderthals existing in the Americas a great while before Homo sapiens appeared over there. Just sharing some finds that may lead to those supporting the claim of Neanderthal presence in the Americas.
    US govt official: “You have observed the white man for 90 years. You’ve seen his wars and his technological advances. You’ve seen his progess, and the damage he’s done.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    That's because Australoids had no agriculture. Agriculture = population boom.
    Papua New Guineans had agriculture (as did many Amerindian tribes btw).

    Have you guys heard about the Hueyatlaco site? At this point, I’d say that it’s possible that the Bering Strait theory is wrong.
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    Default Not from Across the Pacific!

    It seems far fetched to me, that such ancient human beings were capable of crossing the Pacific, but otherwise incapable of anything else? Western Pacific (starting from Asia) can be conquered, with great difficulty, due to the large number of islands there. The movement from Taiwan to the other islands depended on several things:
    The coconut palm & others - much of the coconut in the Pacific is the result of deliberate plantation of the palm. Some other plants were planted as well, I don't remember them all.
    Certain bird species from SEA. Basically the Polynesians had agriculture.
    Advanced boat and navigation technology.
    The latter technology also depended on other technologies and maybe even certain ways of organising society in larger groups, to build the larger vessels.
    And finally the islands, which are spread in the western Pacific - despite they are far apart, they exist, and they exist in appropriate climatic zones.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_culture
    Obviously the eastern islands were not reached first, only after all the others.

    I'm sure those early humans had the potential to create those thing like anyone else, but it seems far fetched that such a relatively advanced people would populate the Americas and then disappear. They would have to have been far more advanced than any other known human group at that point in time, they would have had a humongous head start! However, going from the easternmost of the Pacific Islands to the Americas require travelling across a vast expanse of ocean, without the islands (relatively!) concentrated in the western part. Also, the few East Pacific islands, don't have coral reefs, except one small uninhabitable island. They are generally inhospitable. The more hospitable ones are already beyond a big stretch of ocean, such as Galapagos and Guadalupe island (the latter was originally forested).

    I gather, it is a big time frame, so I cannot rule out that a people could've done it all, but they would've spread and populated everywhere else in Asia-Pacific as well, because the Americas is at the end of such long term oceanic conquest. There's NO WAY they could have just taken a small boat and cross the entire Pacific ocean, continent to continent, if that happened to take place across the tropical Pacific.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Islands

    Now, if we assume it's true that there's 130,000 years old evidence of human activity, then people who made those remains might not have been Homo sapiens, they could've been a different species altogether. Let's just say we found human remains based on tools, and that they were 130,000 years old. OK, but that does not say anything whatsoever about the peopling of the Americas by those same "people", it just shows that they were there at that point in time. They could've come a million years ago, two million, 300,000 years ago. Maybe 130,001 years ago. There were indeed options for traveling across at certain points in time in the past, we know for sure due to the animal exchange which took place. So, let's assume some kind of humans went there, endless aeons ago, they could've died out for some reason tens and tens of thousands of years before the Native Americans came there, and if that was the case they're just a curiosity. It does not mean that the America was populated in the aeons between this find and the time when modern people came to the Americas.

    Obviously I don't believe the validity of this article anyway. It's just not enough evidence to make such fancy claims. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, remember. Interpretations are not direct evidence, it is conjecture, whether it's true or not.
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