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Thread: The genetic prehistory of the Greater Caucasus (Wang et al. 2018)458 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henaut View Post
    But wasn’t Sredny Stog sample R1a, unlike Yamnaya? I know there’s a high possibilty of finding R1a among Yamnaya in other parts of the Steppe not yet sampled but so far it seems like Yamnaya must derive from a EHG rich population belonging to R1b-M269. And I don’t think Sredny Stog qualifies even though the auDNA seemed to match.
    Well, the first and only so far sampled Sredny Stog II sample belongs to R1a, and this is clearly an outlier from the Ukraine_Eneolithic cluster, because it's very similar to Yamnaya.

    Ergo, it seems that there were populations just east of Ukraine with R1a-M417 and R1b-M269 that eventually formed into Yamnaya and Corded Ware.

    This has been rather obvious for a long time now, ever since the Haak paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdTerm View Post
    Wang et al. (2018) detected various degrees of kinship between individuals buried in the same mound and they supported my view that particular mounds reflected genealogical lineages. I think Marinskaya 5 is a particularly interesting case and at least two of these ancient samples from the same mound are likely to have the same Y-DNA haplotype as MK5009.A0101, which is dated 4,710 BP. I don't think Yamnaya steppe herders invaded the Maykop cultural horizon and desecrated Maykop kurgans by adding extra tombs.
    Maykop is not closely related to Yamnaya!

    Pay closer attention to the quote that you posted yourself...

    This shows that the apparent genetic border between the two distinct genetic clusters was shifting over time.
    Thus, two different populations moving in and out of the same territory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    Well, the first and only so far sampled Sredny Stog II sample belongs to R1a, and this is clearly an outlier from the Ukraine_Eneolithic cluster, because it's very similar to Yamnaya.

    Ergo, it seems that there were populations just east of Ukraine with R1a-M417 and R1b-M269 that eventually formed into Yamnaya and Corded Ware.

    This has been rather obvious for a long time now, ever since the Haak paper.
    So you do think that with more sampling that they'll find R1a in Yamnaya aswell?

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    Wang et al. (2018) are not sure about the exact source of Near Eastern admixture in the Yamnaya (16%) due to the limits of their data and the paper didn't specifically mention how the two populations are genetically related to each other.

    The exact geographic and temporal origin of this Anatolian farmer-related ancestry in the North Caucasus and later in the steppe is difficult to discern from our data. Not only do the Steppe groups vary in their respective affinity to each of the two, but also the Caucasus groups, which represent potential sources from a geographic and cultural point of view, are mixtures of them both23.
    Another recent study by Jones et al. (2015) found that the Yamnaya are estimated to owe half of their ancestry to CHG-linked sources, which may be linked to the Maykop culture. Probably future studies will clarify this issue when the full Y-DNA profile of the Maykop culture is made available.

    The Yamnaya were semi-nomadic pastoralists, mainly dependent on stock-keeping but with some evidence for agriculture, including incorporation of a plow into one burial26. As such it is interesting that they lack an ancestral coefficient of the EF genome (Fig. 1b), which permeates through western European Neolithic and subsequent agricultural populations. During the Early Bronze Age, the Caucasus was in communication with the steppe, particularly via the Maikop culture27, which emerged in the first-half of the fourth millennium BC. The Maikop culture predated and, possibly with earlier southern influences, contributed to the formation of the adjacent Yamnaya culture that emerged further to the north and may be a candidate for the transmission of CHG ancestry.

    In the ADMIXTURE analysis of later ancient genomes (Fig. 1b) the Caucasus component gives a marker for the extension of Yamnaya admixture, with substantial contribution to both western and eastern Bronze Age samples. However, this is not completely coincident with metallurgy; Copper Age genomes from Northern Italy and Hungary show no contribution; neither does the earlier of two Hungarian Bronze Age individuals.

    The separation between CHG and both EF and WHG ended during the Early Bronze Age when a major ancestral component linked to CHG was carried west by migrating herders from the Eurasian Steppe. The foundation group for this seismic change was the Yamnaya, who we estimate to owe half of their ancestry to CHG-linked sources. These sources may be linked to the Maikop culture, which predated the Yamnaya and was located further south, closer to the Southern Caucasus. Through the Yamanya, the CHG ancestral strand contributed to most modern European populations, especially in the northern part of the continent.
    This study by Wang et al. (2018) is significant as a major full-length study on the Maykop culture in human genetics. Prior to this study, we only knew about the Maykop culture's mtDNA haplogroups such as T2b, N1b1, U8b1a2 and V7 (Sokolov et al. 2016) , but we are making progress.

    We could show that individuals from the contemporaneous Maykop period in the piedmont region are likely candidates for the source of this ancestry and might explain the regular presence of ‘Maykop artefacts’ in burials that share Steppe Eneolithic traditions and are genetically assigned to the Steppe group. Hence the diverse ‘Steppe Maykop’ group indeed represents the mutual entanglement of Steppe and Caucasus groups and their cultural affiliations in this interaction sphere.
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 2018-05-20 at 22:05.

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    @ThirdTerm

    Get another hobby.

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    Awesome ancient DNA study, and it finally answers the long discussed, rather obvious question, whether Maykop and Kura-Axes were or weren't Indo-European, and now we know that their genetics wasn't.

    Major plus for including Assyrians as a reference population in this study. That's really cool.

    General Genetics Discussion ---> Europe

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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
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    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    This discovery from Wang et al. 2018 is interesting:

    The Yamnaya individuals from the Caucasus derived the majority of their ancestry from Eneolithic steppe individuals but also received about 16% from Globular Amphora-related farmers (Fig. 5).


    So where was the contact zone between Eneolithic steppe and GAC area? Somewhere North-West of the Black Sea?















    And are there any suggestions that GAC-type of ancestry reached South Asia? There seems to be lots of it - more than 40% - in Sintashta (but nothing in Afanasievo culture!).


    I will have to read "BETWEEN WEST AND EAST. PEOPLE OF THE GLOBULAR AMPHORA CULTURE IN EASTERN EUROPE: 2950-2350 BC", Marzena Szmyt
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2018-06-20 at 10:45.

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    Available genetic data from Poland and Ukraine suggest that Marzena Szmyt was right writing this about the origins of GAC in 2010:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marzena Szmyt
    The hypothesis of M. Gimbutas constitutes one element of that author’s overall
    vision, according to which, impulses from the circle of Steppe cultures (which
    she brackets together under the common name of ‘Kurgan culture’) were the key
    factor in the cultural transformations which took place in Europe over the period
    of 4400-2800 BC [Gimbutas 1997a; 1997b]. These influences from the Steppe
    took the form of three waves of migration — or rather ‘invasion’ — of ‘Kurgan
    culture’ populations: no.1 ca. 4400-4200 BC, no.2 ca. 3400-3200 BC and no.3 ca.
    3000-2800 BC. The source of the second wave was the Maikop culture, or rather
    Mikhailivka I — treated as being the early phase of this culture. This author also
    considers Kemi-Oba as part of Maikop. Under the influence of Steppe populations,
    an almost complete transformation of the cultural map of central and south-eastern
    Europe is assumed to have taken place. A cycle of new cultures with a significant
    influence of ‘Kurgan culture’ took shape at this time: Usatovo-Gorodsk-Folteşti,
    Ezero, Baden and Coťofeni, as well as GAC. In the opinion of Gimbutas: “There
    is a complete congruence between the burial rites of the Globular Amphora people
    and those of the Kurgans of the Mikhailivka I stage of the Maikop culture in
    the North Pontic region: mortuary houses built of stone slabs, cromlechs, and
    stone stelae, engravings on stone slabs, ritual burial of horses, cattle and dogs;
    also human sacrifice in connection with funeral rites honoring high-ranking males”
    [Gimbutas 1997b:283]. A particularly strong similarity is also said to characterise
    ceramics of the GAC and Mikhailivka I (globular vessel bellies, shell, sand and
    plant admixtures) as well as settlement types (small, briefly-settled encampments)
    [Gimbutas 1997b:285; 1997c:363-365].

    Quote Originally Posted by Marzena Szmyt
    In terms of the aspect of interest to me here, the concept that the origins of
    the GAC may indirectly be attributed to the Steppe zone raises fundamental objections,
    since a significantly more credible thesis postulates entirely central European
    origins for this culture, anchored in endogenous processes of cultural and social
    transformation on the North European Plain
    [for a broader view, see Szmyt 1996a].

    The hypothesised Steppe origins of the GAC also require far-reaching revision with
    relation to the above-mentioned analogies between the GAC and Mikhailivka I [e.g.
    Häusler 1985:61-64].

    About GAC-Steppe early interactions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Marzena Szmyt
    D. The Steppe zone

    In the Steppe zone, sources genetically related to the GAC are recorded in
    two regions, namely on the Lower Dniester and in the Lower Dnieper region and
    only in syncretic arrangements. The latter include the contexts of the pre-Yamnaya
    (Dnieper region) and Yamnaya culture (in both regions). On the steppes separating
    the two regions (e.g. on the lower Southern Bug) there are no such traces. Hence,
    their link to water arteries is clear. The central portions of their drainage basins
    were — at least partially — used by GAC societies. In both cases we deal either
    with “loans” (diffusion of cultural patterns) or with the appearance of small groups
    of GAC people (or possibly single representatives, for instance, women?) among
    strange societies.
    However, both cases may be true, as well. The extremely small
    number of such relics do not help to clarify the issue, while the above hypotheses
    may be considered equally legitimate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marzena Szmyt
    To determine the chronology of the onset of these phenomena, one must first
    date the decline of the steppe Eneolithic, i.e. pre-Yamnaya structures. Any contacts
    with the GAC were possible only after GAC settlers reached the region of the
    Middle Dniester and Dnieper drainage basins, i.e. definitely after 2950 BC, or more
    precisely — taking into account the dating of the beginning of the Podolia GAC
    group — after 2900/2850 BC. This adjusts the conventionally accepted date of the
    end of pre-Yamnaya phenomena
    [Rassamakin 1994:Fig. 11]
    But Yamna appers to have begun around 3300 BC:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    The Yamna people or Yamnaya culture (traditionally known as the Pit Grave culture or Ochre Grave culture) was a late Copper Age to early Bronze Age culture of the region between the Southern Bug, Dniester and Ural rivers (the Pontic steppe), dating to 3300–2600 BC.
    ..., so the is a 400 years gap between the start of Yamna Culture and the arrival of GAC in the Steppe.
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2018-06-21 at 12:10.

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    You can always count on Polaka for a stupid comment. His new one is:

    "Yamnaya doesn't derive from Maykop and it doesn't come from the Caucasus foothills.
    It derives from Khvalynsk and Sredny Stog, and it expanded into the North Caucasus, taking over former Maykop territory.
    Moreover, the data in this paper show unambiguously that the ancestors of Yamnaya, even the so called Caucasus Yamnaya, had very little genetic contact with Maykop.", which is stark contradiction to almost any data that has come from linguistics, genetics, archaeology, and anthropology"

    If that level of denial doesn't reflect on ass on fire, than even the Brazen Bull can't do it!

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    David Reich's recent postulate, which places PIE/IE south and describes the origins of the Indo-Europeans as follows:

    From seven thousand until five thousand years ago, we observe a steady influx into the steppe of a population whose ancestors traced their origin to the south-as it bore genetic affinity to ancient and present-day people of Armenia and Iran-eventually crystallizing in the Yamnaya, who were about a one-to-one ratio of ancestry from these two sources. A good guess is that the migration proceeded via the Caucasus isthmus between the Black and Caspian seas.
    Who We Are and How We Got Here: Ancient DNA and the New Science of the Human Past (2018), David Reich


    Interestingly, an Iranian influence in the middle BA/late BA is actually supported in a study by E. Jones The Neolithic Transition in the Baltic Was Not Driven by Admixture with Early European Farmers https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28162894, however, this is not without modifying some assumptions at work. Because of the lack of Caucaus samples (only 2 selected), and the mixing of Iranian Neolithics/Chalolithics into one group, the authors apparently miss-assigned the 'green' component to CHG (Caucaus Hunter Gatherer), instead of Iranian Neolithics. So the green component should have actually been assigned to Iranian Neolithics. With that being established, it is apparent from observing the variation between the Steppe Eneolith and Steppe Early/Middle Bronze Age samples, there was in fact an Iranian influence in the Steppe, after the neolithic, and up until the LBA. Note how green Iranian component approximately doubles between Steppe Eneolith Steppe Early/Middle Bronze Age samples. By the Middle-LBA the Turkish component orange becomes a factor, in the Steppe.

    Wang admits that his study didn't have enough data (only to determine if there was a Chalcolithic Iranian influence in the Steppe (although he certainly makes it clear the Maykop and other groups did have the later Iranian influence), but the older study, by Jones actually supports it.

    Last edited by jpz79; 2018-11-13 at 15:46.

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