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Thread: Stonehenge builders used Pythagoras' theorem -- 2,000 years before he was born428 days old

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    Default Stonehenge builders used Pythagoras' theorem -- 2,000 years before he was born

    Stonehenge builders used Pythagoras' theorem 2,000 years before Greek philosopher was born, say experts

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...0-years-greek/

    I think this is interesting.

    What do you guys think?

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    Interesting. I would have figured they had advanced knowledge of mathematics and engineering, they’d have to to put that together with the technology they had at the time.

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    Will they rename it to Stonehenge theorem?

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    Not sure about this. It may be true, but it is definitely an interpretation. It reminds me of all those numerical interpretations of the pyramids, "proving" they are 12,000 years old and that they're made by aliens and whatnot.

    It seems to me that the authors are a bit biased, because it's as if they want to prove that the builders were advanced. The fact that they point this out make the study less serious to me. IMO they should also have left it at the interpretation of the individual sites, not the triangles they form together. It seems a bit of a far fetched idea in general, especially as they go into double digits to prove that the triangles are whole numbers. Robin Heath mention a phrase, as if that support their idea; I think that it's really unlikely that some phrase has survived from so far back, as Robin Heath seems to claim, especially as the language today is presumably totally different from what they spoke back then.

    Another strange claim is that this knowledge was lost after the introduction of Christianity(?) despite the megalithic cultures (which were all over Europe) were long gone by that time. In fact, the specific point in time he talks about is in late British stone age!
    Last edited by JaM; 2018-06-21 at 08:16.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Another strange claim is that this knowledge was lost after the introduction of Christianity(?) despite the megalithic cultures (which were all over Europe) were long gone by that time. In fact, the specific point in time he talks about is in late British stone age!

    The Celtic druids were connected to the British Megalithic culture somehow. They also knew about 'pythagorean' triangles and were described as following a 'pythagorean' religion. According to Caesar's account their culture originated in Britain.

    “The Druids usually hold aloof from war, and do not pay war‑taxes with the rest; they are excused from military service and exempt from all liabilities. Tempted by these great rewards, many young men assemble of their own motion to receive their training; many are sent by parents and relatives. Report says that in the schools of the Druids they learn by heart a great number of verses, and therefore some persons remain twenty years under training. And they do not think it proper to commit these utterances to writing, although in almost all other matters, and in their public and private accounts, they make use of Greek letters. I believe that they have adopted the practice for two reasons — that they do not wish the rule to become common property, nor those who learn the rule to rely on writing and so neglect the cultivation of the memory; and, in fact, it does usually happen that the assistance of writing tends to relax the diligence of the student and the action of the memory. The cardinal doctrine which they seek to teach is that souls do not die, but after death pass from one to another; and this belief, as the fear of death is thereby cast aside, they hold to be the greatest incentive to valour. Besides this, they have many discussions as touching the stars and their movement, the size of the universe and of the earth, the order of nature, the strength and the powers of the immortal gods, and hand down their lore to the young men.”

    “It is believed that their rule of life was discovered in Britain and transferred thence to Gaul; and to‑day those who would study the subject more accurately journey, as a rule, to Britain to learn it.”

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...c_War/6B*.html


    Knowledge of mathematics and astronomy developed within the megalithic culture appears to have been passed down through the bronze age by a class of priests who became the Celtic druids.
    Last edited by Reason1234; 2018-06-21 at 18:21.

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    Sounds like utter crap, sorry to say. Caesar's writings has nothing to do with the neolithic cultures and the quote is completely irrelevant.

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    You can actually trace, via various different artefacts, what appears to be the transmission of mathematical and astronomical knowledge by an elite, through the Bronze Age, possibly all the way to the Iron Age Druids.


    First of all, from the original article:

    “A new book, Megalith, has re-examined the ancient geometry of Neolithic monuments and concluded they were constructed by sophisticated astronomers who understood lengthy lunar, solar and eclipse cycles and built huge stone calendars using complex geometry […]

    The new book, published today to coincide with today’s summer solstice, shows how within one of Stonehenge’s earliest incarnations, dating from 2750BC, there lies a rectangle of four Sarsen stones which when split in half diagonally forms a perfect Pythagorean 5:12:13 triangle.

    The eight lines which radiate from the rectangle and triangles also perfectly align to important dates in the Neolithic calendar, such as the summer and winter solstices and spring and autumn equinoxes."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...0-years-greek/



    1. The Bush Barrow Gold Lozenge, c.1900-1700 BC:



    “Bush Barrow is a site of the early British Bronze Age, at the western end of the Normanton Down Barrows cemetery. It is among the most important sites of the Stonehenge complex, having produced some of the most spectacular grave goods in Britain. […] The items date the burial to the early Bronze Age, 1900-1700BC, and include a large 'lozenge'-shaped sheet of gold [...]

    The design of the artifact known as the Bush Barrow Lozenge, and the smaller lozenge, has been shown to be based on a hexagon construction. Both the shape and the decorative panels appear to have been created by repeating hexagons within a series of three concentric circles (each framing the series of smaller decorative panels).[5] The precision and accuracy displayed by the work demonstrates both a sophisticated tool kit and a sound knowledge of geometric form. A similar gold lozenge from Clandon Barrow, in Dorset, used a decagon in its design.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_B...Barrow_Lozenge


    "The construction of Stonehenge reflects the empirical discovery of mathematical truths. Its design embodies the elegant and universal symbolism of numbers and geometry. 4,500 years ago Neolithic surveyors and engineers understood and employed the relationships between squares and circles. They accurately created polygons which included hexagons, pentagons, decagons; the classic 30 sided figure which determined the positions of the Sarsen Circle (a 'triacontagon') is itself a product of these fundamental shapes. The 'horseshoe' form of the central array was derived from the same markers that determined the position of the Sarsen Circle. Beyond the circle, the four 'Station Stones' sit in perfect spatial and geometric relationship with the central group. [...] The Bush Barrow Lozenge is one of a number of objects that provide a further remarkable insight into the sublime dimension of the prehistoric mind. This artefact is a tangible and intimate connection with the creativity of the Early Bronze Age artisans, a mature reflection of geometric principles"

    http://www.solvingstonehenge.co.uk/page3.html


    "A new interpretation of the geometrical pattern on the Bush Barrow lozenge was originally conceived by J.M.D. Ker in 1977 […] Ker and his colleagues found the pair of acute angles of the basic diamond pattern to be 81 degrees. They realized that this was the angle between midsummer and midwinter sunrises (and sunsets of course) on a low horizon at the latitude of Stonehenge (51.17 degrees N) four thousand years ago. […] The long axis of the pattern, when oriented east/west, must point to the equinoctial sunrise or sunset; the two sides of the diamond must then point to those at midwinter and midsummer. In fact the authors claim that all the “Eighth” subdivisions of the solar calendar are clearly shown by lines running from a point on the left (marked by the black diamond here) through the inner points of the zig-zag pattern opposite. […]"

    https://www.academia.edu/10771931/Th...h_new_evidence



    2. The Nebra Sky disk, c.1600 BC:



    “The Nebra sky disk is a bronze disk of around 30 centimeters (12 in) diameter and a weight of 2.2 kilograms (4.9 lb), with a blue-green patina and inlaid with gold symbols. These are interpreted generally as a sun or full moon, a lunar crescent, and stars (including a cluster interpreted as the Pleiades). Two golden arcs along the sides, marking the angle between the solstices, were added later. […]

    “The two arcs span an angle of 82°, correctly indicating the angle between the positions of sunset at summer and winter solstice at the latitude of the Mittelberg (51°N)[6].”

    “The Nebra sky disk features the oldest concrete depiction of the cosmos worldwide.[…]

    The find is regarded as reconfirming that the astronomical knowledge and abilities of the people of the European Bronze Age included close observation of the yearly course of the Sun, and the angle between its rising and setting points at summer and winter solstice. While much older earthworks and megalithic astronomical complexes such as the Goseck circle and Stonehenge had already been used to mark the solstices, the disk is the oldest known "portable instrument" to allow such measurements.”

    “analysis found that the gold used in the first phase [of the disk] was from the river Carnon in Cornwall, United Kingdom.[4] The tin content of the bronze was also from Cornwall.[5]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk


    "Bronze Age Sky Disc Deciphered

    A group of German scientists has deciphered the meaning of one of the most spectacular archeological discoveries in recent years: The mystery-shrouded sky disc of Nebra was used as an advanced astronomical clock.

    The purpose of the 3,600 year-old sky disc of Nebra, which caused a world-wide sensation when it was brought to the attention of the German public in 2002, is no longer a matter of speculation. A group of German scholars who studied this archaeological gem has discovered evidence which suggests that the disc was used as a complex astronomical clock for the harmonization of solar and lunar calendars. "This is a clear expansion of what we knew about the meaning and function of the sky disc," said archeologist Harald Meller.

    A thirteenth month?

    Unlike the solar calendar, which indicates the position of the earth as it revolves around the sun, the lunar calendar is based on the phases of the moon. A lunar year is eleven days shorter than the solar year because 12 synodic months, or 12 returns of the moon to the new phase, take only 354 days. The sky disc of Nebra was used to determine if and when a thirteenth month -- the so-called intercalary month -- should be added to a lunar year to keep the lunar calendar in sync with the seasons. "The functioning of this clock was probably known to a very small group of people," Meller said.

    Bronze Age science

    The 32-centimeter-wide (12.6-inch) bronze disc with gold-leaf appliqués representing the sun, the moon, and the stars is the oldest visual representation of the cosmos known to date. A cluster of seven dots has previously been interpreted as the Pleiades constellation as it appeared 3,600 years ago.

    The explanation of the disc's purpose sheds new light on the astronomical knowledge and abilities of the Bronze Age people, who used a combination of solar and lunar calendars as important indicators for agricultural seasons and passage of time. "The sensation lies in the fact that the Bronze Age people managed to harmonize the solar and lunar years. We never thought they would have managed that," Meller said.

    According to astronomer Wolfhard Schlosser of the Rurh University at Bochum, the Bronze Age sky gazers already knew what the Babylonians would describe only a thousand years later. "Whether this was a local discovery, or whether the knowledge came from afar, is still not clear," Schlosser said.

    From Saxony-Anhalt to Babylon

    Ever since the disc was discovered, archaeologists and astronomers have been puzzled by the shape of the moon as it appears on the disc. "I wanted to explain the thickness of the crescent on the sky disc of Nebra because it is not a new moon phase," said Hamburg astronomer Ralph Hansen.

    In his quest to explain why the Nebra astronomers created a sky map with a four or five days old moon on it, Hansen consulted the "Mul-Apin" collection of Babylonian documents from the 7th and 6th centuries B.C. These cuneiform writings represent, according to Hansen, a compendium of "astronomic knowledge from the earliest times." They also contain a calculation rule for the crescent that looks strikingly similar to the one from Nebra.

    According to the ancient Babylonian rule, a thirteenth month should only be added to the lunar calendar only when one sees the constellation of the moon and the Pleiades exactly as they appear on the Nebra sky disc. The Bronze Age astronomers would hold the Nebra clock against the sky and observe the position of the celestial objects. The intercalary month was inserted when what they saw in the sky corresponded to the map on the disc they were holding in their hands. This happened every two to three years."

    http://www.dw.com/en/bronze-age-sky-...ered/a-1915398


    "The sky disk was used according to current knowledge as an astronomical reminder - as a memogram - for those who watched the sky of the Bronze Age. The Pleiades could be used to determine the timing of sowing and harvesting and thus to structure the peasant year. This connection is handed down by the Greek poet Hesiod and is probably already known since the beginning of the Neolithic. [...] The abstract representations on the disc are extraordinary because they presuppose decades of precise observation of the sky and a high degree of abstraction that had hitherto not been suspected by Bronze Age people outside the advanced civilizations of the Middle East."

    http://www.himmelsscheibe-erleben.de...ische-deutung/


    "The Prehistoric Solar Calendar: an out-of-fashion idea re-visited with new evidence

    “When one considers the wide range of latitudes which mainland Europe covers it does seem rather remarkable that the most convincing archaeoastronomical artefact ever found [the Nebra Disk] should have come from about the same latitude as Stonehenge—the most spectacular of the prehistoric circular ‘holy places’—even though it is in eastern Germany and far away across the sea from the Wiltshire site. The centre of Stonehenge is at 51.15 degrees North and the summit of the Mittelberg at 51.28 degrees North. This represents a latitudinal distance apart of only about 11 km and is another remarkable coincidence (in the literal sense of the word) to which attention is only now being drawn. Can there have been some important reason for the establishment of the two sanctuaries at this latitude, which would partly explain the deposition in or near them of two elaborate metal artifacts [i.e. the Bush Barrow Lozenge and the Nebra Disk] which, though completely different in form and design, seem to have had similar links with the solar calendar? […]





    "The Nebra disc and the Bush Barrow lozenge both seem to be designed to reflect the annual solar cycle at about latitude 51 degrees north, and both have elements in their design which could refer specifically to the solar calendar. The close similarity of the latitudes of their find spots drew attention again to the idea that Stonehenge might have been built where it is for a specific calendrical or astronomical reason, and a fresh look at the Station Stone rectangle—the structure which best reflects this reason—seems to confirm that it is built round a 5:12:13 Pythagorean triangle, is integral with the Aubrey hole circle, and has three kinds of celestial alignment built into its sides. […]

    If a same solar calendar was indeed in use in the early Bronze Age in eastern Germany and in the UK and Ireland, then the entire body of arcane knowledge ... - concerning sky observation, the solar calendar, and exact measuring and geometry—could have been in the possession of priesthoods throughout northern, central, and western Europe in the Neolithic period. Moreover, the evidence from Knowth suggests that this knowledge was fully developed by the end of the fourth millennium BC, and is linked firmly with the emergence and spread of the passage grave building cultures of Iberia and Atlantic Europe.”

    https://www.academia.edu/10771931/Th...h_new_evidence

    [Note: The Nebra disk was found near to the neolithic Goseck Circle, which is located at the latitude of 51.19 degrees north, almost identical to the 51.15 degree latitude of Stonehenge. The Goseck Circle is described as one of the oldest ‘solar observatories’ in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goseck_circle ]


    “Links with the Iron Age Druids

    "the Nebra disc appears to extend into the early Bronze Age, the esoteric knowledge hitherto thought (by some) to have been confined to the builders of the great British ceremonial sites of the Neolithic age. Presumably, if a class of astronomer priests was responsible for all this in Neolithic times, these learned orders were still in existence, despite extensive cultural changes, in the middle of the 2nd millennium BCE. Thus, the time gap between our hypothetical prehistoric priesthood and the well-described orders of Druids in the Iron Age has been reduced to not much more than a thousand years. Classical sources from several centuries BCE tell us that the Druids had extensive knowledge of cosmology and astronomy, and it now seems to the author even more likely that this priestly class was directly descended from the European Neolithic orders which, he submits, have to be inferred from the mounting, and completely independent, archaeological and archaeoastronomical evidence.”

    https://www.academia.edu/11470159/Ne...rly_Bronze_Age



    3. Golden Hats, c.1400-800 BC, and The Mold Cape, c.1900–1600 BC:



    “The wizards of early Europe wore hats of gold intricately embellished with astrological symbols that helped them to predict the movement of the sun and stars. This is the conclusion of German archaeologists and historians who claim to have solved the mystery behind a series of strange yet beautiful golden cone-shaped objects discovered at Bronze Age sites across Europe.

    Four of the elaborately decorated cones have been uncovered at sites in Switzerland, Germany and France over the past 167 years. Their original purpose has baffled archaeologists for decades.

    Historians at Berlin's Museum for Pre- and Early History, claim to have established with near certainty that the mysterious cones were originally worn as ceremonial hats by Bronze Age oracles.

    Such figures, referred to as "king-priests", were held to have supernatural powers because of their ability to predict accurately the correct time for sowing, planting and harvesting crops.

    "They would have been regarded as Lords of Time who had access to a divine knowledge that enabled them to look into the future," said Wilfried Menghin, the director of the Berlin Museum which has been carrying out detailed research on a 3,000-year-old 30in high Bronze Age cone of beaten gold that was discovered in Switzerland in 1995 and purchased by the museum the following year.

    Mr Menghin and his researchers discovered that the 1,739 sun and half-moon symbols decorating the Berlin cone's surface make up a scientific code which corresponds almost exactly to the "Metonic cycle" discovered by the Greek astronomer Meton in 432bc - about 500 years after the cone was made - which explains the relationship between moon and sun years.

    "The symbols on the hat are a logarithmic table which enables the movements of the sun and the moon to be calculated in advance," Mr Menghin said. "They suggest that Bronze Age man would have been able to make long-term, empirical astrological observations," he added.

    "Our findings suggest that the Bronze Age was a far more sophisticated period in Europe than has hitherto been thought," Mr Menghin said.



    Other German archaeologists have suggested that the gold-hatted king-priests were to be found across much of prehistoric Europe. Prof Sabine Gerloff, a German archaeologist from Erlangen University, has found evidence that five similar golden cones were exhumed by peat diggers in Ireland during the 17th and 18th centuries. These objects, described at the time as "vases", have disappeared. Prof Gerloff says, however, that her research suggests almost conclusively that they were hats worn by Bronze Age king-priests.

    She is also convinced that a Bronze Age cape of beaten gold - the "Gold Cape of Mold" discovered in Wales in 1831 - was part of a king-priest's ceremonial dress.”



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...t-wizards.html



    4. Amphora Calendars, c.950-800 BC:



    “It is an archaeological sensation that experts compare with the discovery of the Nebra Sky Disk: two Prignitzer amphorae from the royal tomb Seddin and from a site in Herzberg (OPR) probably come from the same workshop and maybe even from the same master hand. They had a calendar function. Yesterday, scientists informed about this discovery in the Archeological State Museum in Brandenburg on the Havel.

    The two large bronze amphorae appeared in Seddin and Herzberg in 1899 and 1991, less than 70 kilometers apart. In terms of age, they date back to the Bronze Age (around 950-800 BC). Both vessels carry a characteristic humpback decor. "There are only eleven comparable specimens in the whole of Europe," says Dr. Christof Krauskopf, press spokesman at the Landesmuseum. It's all the more amazing that there are two in Prignitz.

    Experts call them calendars. The reason is their decors. The simple hump is interpreted as a sign for a 24-hour day. The sums of humps from the rows and sections result in natural periods of time such as a lunar year of 354 days or a solar year of 365 days. All this the researchers read out of the Seddiner decor. "The ring humps, as higher-level units, cover larger periods of time and serve as operating instructions as well as for the quick readability of the calendar system," explains Dr. med. Krauskopf. The decors can therefore only conclude: they show materialization, visualization and mastery of time. "This represented an extraordinary cultural achievement," says Krauskopf.”



    https://www.svz.de/lokales/prignitz/...id4017501.html


    5. The Coligny Calendar, c.50 AD:



    “The Gaulish Coligny calendar is possibly the oldest Celtic solar/lunar ritual calendar.[...] The calendar is made up of bronze fragments, in a single huge plate [it might have been smashed to pieces by the Romans]. It is inscribed in Gaulish with Latin characters and uses Roman numerals.

    The Coligny Calendar is an attempt to reconcile the cycles of the moon and sun, as is the modern Gregorian calendar. However, the Coligny calendar considers the phases of the moon to be important, and each month always begins with the same moon phase. The calendar uses a mathematical arrangement to keep a normal 12-month calendar in sync with the moon and keeps the whole system in sync by adding an intercalary month every 2 1⁄2 years. The Coligny calendar registers a five-year cycle of 62 lunar months, divided into a "bright" and a "dark" fortnight (or half a moon cycle) each. The months were possibly taken to begin on the new moon, and a 13th intercalary month was added every two and a half years to align the lunations with the solar year.

    The astronomical format of the calendar year that the Coligny calendar represents may well be far older, as calendars are usually even more conservative than rites and cults. The date of its inception is unknown, but correspondences of Insular Celtic and Continental Celtic calendars suggest that some early form may date to Proto-Celtic times, roughly 800 BC. The Coligny calendar achieves a complex synchronisation of the solar and lunar months. Whether it does this for philosophical or practical reasons, it points to considerable degree of sophistication.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_calendar

    “Steinrücken (2012) has proposed that Pliny's statement that the Celtic month begins on the sixth day of the month[14] may be taken as evidence for the age of this [Coligny calendar] system: assuming that the month was originally aligned with lunations, a shift of five days corresponds to a period of 975 years, suggesting a starting date in the 10th century BC.[15] Omsted (1992) in a similar argument proposes an origin around "850 ± 300 BC".[16]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coligny_calendar


    “The calendar of Coligny is based on a uniform time with changing time units, which correspond to the duration of lunar rule and leap years. The calendrical use of lunar control and leap years presupposes that the binding of the lunar year to the solar year was known by switching to a 13th lunation.

    […] the Celts' chronology was within a luni-solar tradition whose roots probably date back to the time of the circular trench [i.e. neolithic henge] installations.”

    http://weltwunder-himmelsscheibe.de/...20%20I-VII.pdf


    “In 1988, Alban Wall published a paper in the Epigraphic Society Occasional Publications (Vol.17) that summarizes the similarities of Stonehenge and The Coligny Calendar. According to Wall, both Stonehenge and The Coligny Calendar are luni-solar, both are based on a 19 year cycle or the Metonic cycle of the moon, and both have months that basically alternate between 30 and 29 nights.[...]

    Alban Wall observes that both Stonehenge and The Coligny Calendar differ from most other luni-solar calendars in their special prominence given to the solstices [...]

    http://www.sequanicalendar.com/stonehenge.html



    6. The Bibracte Basin, c.1st century BC:



    “Some phrases of the god’s language can be deciphered in the pink-granite basin of Bibracte (first century BC). […] The basin is the geometrical result of two circles, overlapping at one-fifth of their diameters. Lines drawn from the centre of the oval to the centre of one of the circles and to a point of intersection form a Pythagorean triangle - a right-angled triangle with lengths that are a Pythagorean triad: 3, 4 and 5. [..]

    The Pythagorean triangle has two angles of 53.13º. This was, to within four-fifths of a degree, the angle of the solstice sun at Bibracte. Accuracy of this order in the measurement of angles is often thought to have been unattainable without theodolites, but here, in one of the clearest utterances of the gods - two intersecting circles and a Pythagorean triangle - is proof that solar pathways could be measured quite simply. The fact that this solstice angle happens to be the angle produced by the sacred Pythagorean triad of 3, 4 and 5 must have struck the Druid mathematicians of Bibracte as a particularly auspicious coincidence.”



    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...gle%22&f=false


    Pythagorean Druids:

    “Alexander Cornelius Polyhistor referred to the druids as philosophers and called their doctrine of the immortality of the soul and reincarnation or metempsychosis "Pythagorean":

    "The Pythagorean doctrine prevails among the Gauls' teaching that the souls of men are immortal, and that after a fixed number of years they will enter into another body."

    Caesar made similar observations:

    With regard to their actual course of studies, the main object of all education is, in their opinion, to imbue their scholars with a firm belief in the indestructibility of the human soul, which, according to their belief, merely passes at death from one tenement to another; for by such doctrine alone, they say, which robs death of all its terrors, can the highest form of human courage be developed. Subsidiary to the teachings of this main principle, they hold various lectures and discussions on astronomy, on the extent and geographical distribution of the globe, on the different branches of natural philosophy, and on many problems connected with religion.
    — Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico, VI, 13

    Diodorus Siculus, writing in 36 BCE, described how the druids followed "the Pythagorean doctrine", that human souls "are immortal and after a prescribed number of years they commence a new life in a new body."[29]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druid#Philosophy


    Diviciacus:

    “Diviciacus or Divitiacus of the Aedui is the only druid from antiquity whose existence is attested by name.

    His date of birth is not known, but he was an adult during the late 60s BC, at which time he was described by Julius Caesar as a "senator" of the Aedui. In Caesar's The Gallic War the word "senator" is used to refer to Gallic aristocrats who took part in their clans' decision-making. He supported the Aedui's preexisting alliance with Rome. […]

    In 63 BC, at the age of 32, he survived the Battle of Magetobriga, where forces of the Sequani and Arverni, together with Germanic troops under the Suebi King Ariovistus, massacred the Aedui.[2] Thereafter, the Aedui became tributary to the Sequani. Following the Aedui's defeat at Magetobriga, Diviciacus traveled to Rome and spoke before the Roman Senate to ask for military aid. While in Rome, he was a guest of Cicero, who spoke of his knowledge of divination, astronomy and natural philosophy, and names him as a druid.[3] Julius Caesar, who knew him well, noted his particular skills as a diplomat without calling him a druid.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diviciacus_(Aedui)



    7. Celtic temples:



    “something spectacular lies behind the configuration of these enigmatic structures […] the Druids would have been aware of the heavenly shape that Pythagoras was said to have been the first to recognise. The sun’s apparent motion against the background of stars against the background of stars over the course of a year describes a slanted circle called the ecliptic. This is the elliptical loop along which the planets and the twelve constellations of the zodiac appear. For a culture that attached such importance to the motion of the sun, this would have been a crucial discovery.

    The surveying operation involving two poles and a length of rope is the simplest method of drawing an ellipse. Though there was nothing on the ground to show it, these apparently defective rectangles are the geometrical figures that define the yearly course of the sun. The temples and other sacred enclosures that were once a prominent feature of the landscape were constructed as though the heavenly ellipse surrounded them. And just as the line of the solstice sun had been materialised in the Via Heraklea, this other solar pathway was mapped out on the earth in thousands of places from Bavaria to the Atlantic ocean.”

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...temple&f=false



    9. The Celtic ‘Solar Map’ (?):

    " 'Roman' roads were actually built by the Celts, new book claims

    The findings of Graham Robb, a biographer and historian, bring into question two millennia of thinking about Iron Age Britain and Europe and the stereotyped image of Celts as barbarous, superstitious tribes.

    In reality the Druids, the Celt’s scientific and spiritual leaders, were some of the most intellectually advanced thinkers of their age, it is said, who developed the straight roads in the 4th Century BC, hundreds of years before the Italian army marched across the continent.

    “They had their own road system on which the Romans later based theirs,” Mr Robb said, adding that the roads were built in Britain from around the 1st Century BC.

    “It has often been wondered how the Romans managed to build the Fosse Way, which goes from Exeter to Lincoln. They must have known what the finishing point would be, but they didn’t conquer that part of Britain until decades later. How did they manage to do that if they didn’t follow the Celtic road?”

    Mr Robb, former fellow of Exeter College, Oxford, first came up with the theory when he planned to cycle the Via Heraklea, an ancient route that runs a thousand miles in a straight line from the tip of the Iberian Peninsula to the Alps, and realised that it was plotted along the solstice lines through several Celtic settlements.

    He mapped the positioning of hundreds of other towns and cities in France, Britain and Ireland and found that the Celt’s had organised them to mirror the paths of their Sun God, created a network straight of tracks following the solstice lines across swathes of the continent.

    The Ancient Paths, released tomorrow, suggests that the Druids possessed map-making skills that historians believed were discovered centuries later and created the “earliest accurate map of the world”.

    But their scientific and mathematical achievements have been long forgotten as there is no written evidence.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...ok-claims.html

    “After examining satellite imaging (difficult for the private scholar even a decade ago) and making several more research trips, [historian Graham Robb] bumped up against two extraordinary discoveries. First, the entire Via Heraklea runs as straight as an arrow along the angle of the rising and setting sun at the solstices. Second, plotting lines through the Celtic Mediolanum settlements results in lines that map on to sections of Roman road, which themselves point not to Roman towns but at Celtic oppida farther along. [...]



    Piece by piece, there emerges a map of the ancient world constructed along precise celestial lines: a huge network of meridians and solar axes that served as the blueprint for the Celtic colonisation of Europe, dictated the placement of its settlements and places of worship, and was then almost wholly wiped from history. […]

    Building on meridians and equinoctial lines, the Druids used their maps of the heavens to create a map that criss-crossed a continent, providing a plan of sufficient latitudinal and longitudinal accuracy to guide the Celtic diaspora as it pushed eastward across Europe.



    The swirls and patterns in Celtic art turn out, Robb surmises, to be arranged along rigorous mathematical principles, and may even encode the navigational and cartographic secrets that the Druids so laboriously developed.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...pe-review.html

    “Robb's real argument is not that the pre-Roman inhabitants of Celtic Europe were skilled engineers, but that they were skilled surveyors and astronomers, laying out a great network of roads, town centres and sacred places, still discoverable on the map.

    “what they [the druids] laid out was a gridwork of astronomically derived lines, the "ancient paths" of Robb's title. These include solstice lines, oriented both on summer solstice and winter solstice sunrise. […]

    Part of Robb's argument is that his ancient scientists could not only draw ellipses, and plot the path of the sun, but understood how to calculate bearings, and even the value of pi, on not impossibly difficult Pythagorean principles. Engineers they may not have been, but mathematicians, yes.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...am-robb-review


    So what did the Romans do for us? Archaeologists find cobbled road that was built 100 years BEFORE they invaded

    History teaches us that the Romans built our road system and civilised Britain. But incredible new evidence may prompt another look at the question of what the Romans did for us.

    Archaeologists have uncovered an ancient highway built before the Roman Conquest which suggests that Iron Age man may have beaten them to it.The discovery is the first of its kind and proves that ancient Britons built and used complex roads a century earlier than the invaders.

    It even raises the possibility that the Romans were inspired by Iron Age man, as their road was built on top of the original foundations, which date from 2,100 years ago.

    Tim Malim, the archaeologist leading the project, said his team had been brought in to investigate what was believed to be a Roman road. But on closer inspection, they realised that the construction was actually built upon the original foundations of another road, which was found to date from the Iron Age.

    The discovery is now likely to prompt archaeologists in other parts of Britain to re-examine some more typically Roman-looking roads to see whether they too were constructed by Britons.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...-invasion.html
    Last edited by Reason1234; 2018-06-22 at 06:58.

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    All of that really, truly fit into the "we wuz kangz" category. I don't doubt that the druids had a lot of knowledge, but definitely a lot had happened in the in between periods and the allingements in the original article is described for the late stone age period. The Celts were a lot more advanced than that, a lot had happened technology wise, not to mention that according to legend they came to the Isles a lot later, regardless of which culture the Isles had before they came. The problem with all of that is the "Celticism" movement in the UK, which tries to prove all those connections you write about, based on some kind of Celtic romanticism.

    Ps. I don't wanna return to previous discussions about this, all of the above is just my opinion and we simply disagree. My original post about the article still stands, there's too much conjecture as it is.
    Last edited by JaM; 2018-06-22 at 07:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    according to legend they [the Celts] came to the Isles a lot later, regardless of which culture the Isles had before they came.
    The Bell-Beaker people, who might have been 'proto-celts', arrived in Britain around the time that Stonehenge was completed (2500 BC). Stonehenge continued to be modified until around 1600 BC, and it appears to have been an important cult site throughout this time.

    "The Y and Z Holes are the last known construction at Stonehenge, built about 1600 BC, and the last usage of it was probably during the Iron Age."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoneh...t_(1600_BC_on)
    Last edited by Reason1234; 2018-06-22 at 15:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    All of that really, truly fit into the "we wuz kangz" category.
    Not really, most of it is from respected mainstream academics. Some of it is speculative, a lot of it is simply factual.

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