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Thread: "Paleolithic DNA from the Caucasus reveals core of West Eurasian ancestry"271 days old

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanun View Post
    You know to read well statements, even from the paper?

    It's very different from both SSA and OOA Eurasians. [B] But in comparison between the two of them it's closer to Eurasian than SSA. But, again. It's not necessary to label them as either white or black component. It's a component on its own, native to North Africa. I guess the distinctive Ancient Egyptian phenotype painted on those frescoes start to make sense.
    That’s simply not true. In this study, ANA shares more genetic drift with Mota and the main Yoruba clade than Eurasians including Basal Eurasian. There’s a reason why they were able to successfully model Taforalt as 73% ancient Dzudzuana and 27% Mbuti compared to 55% Dzudzauna and 45% ANA.

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  4. #42
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    Even with the presumption of ANA and the new model I'd say the majority of modern North African ancestry is Eurasian. >75% in most cases. Mozabites seem to have a lot of ANA but it's still considerably less than even the Taforalt who were already > 50% Eurasian.

    I'm more curious how much of the 'sub saharan' ancestry certain North African groups have like for instance the Mozabites is actually just ANA and is just giving a off pseudo sub-Saharan signal in earlier admixture studies.

    Remember Taforalt used to be modeled as 66% West Eurasian 33% Sub Saharan. Now it's 55% West Eurasian 45% Ancestral North African. So a lot of this so called Sub-Saharan ancestry in modern North Africans may be much older than the Arab-Islamic slave trade or whatever recent/historical migrations older studies used to infer it to be from. A lot of it is really ANA and just gave off a pseudo Sub-Saharan signature. Not all of it obviously but certainly a large percentage.
    Last edited by Arch Hades; 2018-10-04 at 05:13.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Even with the presumption of ANA and the new model I'd say the majority of modern North African ancestry is Eurasian. >75% in most cases. Mozabites seem to have a lot of ANA but it's still considerably less than even the Taforalt who were already > 50% Eurasian.

    I'm more curious how much of the 'sub saharan' ancestry certain North African groups have like for instance the Mozabites is actually just ANA and is just giving a off pseudo sub-Saharan signal in earlier admixture studies.

    Remember Taforalt used to be modeled as 66% West Eurasian 33% Sub Saharan. Now it's 55% West Eurasian 45% Ancestral North African. So a lot of this so called Sub-Saharan ancestry in modern North Africans may be much older than the Arab-Islamic slave trade or whatever recent/historical migrations older studies used to infer it to be from. A lot of it is really ANA and just gave off a pseudo Sub-Saharan signature. Not all of it obviously but certainly a large percentage.
    Yes this is accurate. It looks like a significant part of what was considered proper Sub-Saharan admixture in North Africa is in reality Ancestral North African native to the region and somewhat closer on the tree graph to the Eurasian/OOA clade alongside Mota.

    Another interesting : according to the study, it looks like Levantine Neolithic barely played much of a role in the peopling of Northwest Africa, as North African Berbers can be succesfully be modeled as a mixture of 25-30% from Taforalt and 40% Neolithic farmers related to Iberian farmers, and ultimately from Anatolia.

    It also looks like Natufians had a good amount of ancestry from similar Mesolithic North African hunter gatherers as Taforalt. This explains why Natufians showed higher affinities to all African populations than other Eurasians, while they showed no drift towards Sub-Sahara Africa nor any sign of real admixture from that region.

    The Taforalt admixture in West Africa definitely explains detected Nehanderthal alleles in small amounts in Yoruba (THE reference for West Africa). West Africans are the most drift away in the tree from post-OOA Eurasians (in comparison to the East African hunter fatherer Mota, and the ANA ancestry in Taforalt and Natufians). West Africans are most likely going to be a mixture of various African clades, one deeper more basal to the human tree and other closer to ancestral East African populations.

    Another point : The missing link between Taforalt and Natufians could be Mesolithic Egypt. ADNA from Mesolithic or Neolithic Egypt would be a large step forward understanding the Natufian-Taforlat relationship and the genetic ethnogenensis of predynastic Ancient Egypyians. Notably how Neolithic Levant influcened it, or how the population growth formed after the Saharan desertification. A Dzudzunua sample from the Caucasus itself being mtDNA U6 give alot of weight to the hypothesis Dzudzuana-like ancestry entered North Africa by the Paleolithic. In any case, we are dealing with the earliest Afro-Asiatic speakers.
    Last edited by Dohan.; 2018-10-04 at 09:12.

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    But yes, Dzudzunua is obviously the missing link between Western European hunter gatherers (WHG) and the non-Basal Eurasian ancestry of prehistoric West Asians, so called 'UHG'. DZUDZUANA ancestry is very close the WHG/Villabruna clade, and also to the ANE clade which is just a 25% East Asian-admixed West Eurasian clade. On the other hand Dzudzuana differ from WHG and ANE due to Basal Eurasian ancestry. It clearly push Basal Eurasian admixture in the Middle East to a much earlier date, it is not even sure if Basal Eurasians were not at the end of the day the natives of the Middle East overwhelmed by later arrival of people. In any case Dzudzunua-like poeple have mixed with ANE to form the typical CHG clade in the Caucasus by the Mesolithic, and Dzudzuana-like ancestry largely remplaced WHG/Villabruna ancestry in Europe with the arrival of Anatolian farmers and Indo European pastoralist from the steppes, although significant amounts of native WHG/EHG is still present and is what differ the most Europeans from Middle Easterners east of Anatolia.
    Last edited by Dohan.; 2018-10-04 at 08:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    The big news is there is a new proposed component that is neither Sub-Saharan African or Eurasian...it's called 'Ancestral North African'.

    The Taforalt sample circa 13,000 BC from Morocco are modeled as being 55% Eurasian (Basal and West Eurasian) and 45% Ancestral North African. Natufians is no longer considered pure Eurasian but about 27% of it's ancestry from a Taforalt like source (making it about 12% ANA).
    And ANA ancestry is believed to have even contributed to modern Modern West and Central African Yoruba at about 6-7%.

    Some other secondary info....Basal Eurasian ancestry is likely to be found in the Caucasus 26,000 years ago. It was earlier proposed it didn't make it that far North till about 15,000 years ago.
    Taforalt is 58% North African and 42% Non-African, not the other way around.

    When we model the two Dzudzuana individuals separately, we obtain similar estimates of 26.0!4.2% for I2949 and 31.3±5.3% for I2963. Taforalt is inferred to have ~58% deep ancestry; the admixture graph model makes them a mixture of Dzudzuana and a more deeply splitting lineage, thus giving them 0.45+0.55*.28 ≈ 60% deeply splitting ancestry, which is also a good match to the admixture graph.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Dude, you fucking suck at anthro topics. Anyone who thinks the ancient Egyptians were black or that Yamnaya was like partially Negro, is a clown. It's funny that you think of yourself as some sort of anthro jedi master, lol.
    Oh really?

    Mbuti: This is a catch-all category of ‘Basal’ ancestry defined as stemming from lineages that split off
    prior to the differentiation of the Sources and Outgroups. It is used to account for extra Basal
    Eurasian ancestry (than what is contributed by Dzudzuana), as well as other Basal ancestry (e.g., from
    North or Sub-Saharan Africans). Note that populations from the Levant and Iran/Caucasus have extra
    ‘Basal’ ancestry compared to Dzudzuana
    , as do North Africans from Taforalt and the Early Neolithic.
    We do not attempt to pinpoint the origin of this ancestry, as this will be better studied when
    representative samples from across Africa are available
    . It is clear (Extended Data Fig. 6) that some of
    this ancestry cannot be explained by admixture from Levantine/Iran/Caucasus populations as some of
    the Near Eastern and North African populations share more drift with a Sub-Saharan African
    population than can be explained by non-African sources alone.
    Paleolithic DNA from the Caucasus reveals core of West Eurasian ancestry
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...1/423079-1.pdf

    Take some cues from your boy Duwie. He knows what all of this means (not a peep from him in this thread). It's been several papers now, where he hasn't shown up, or where he did show up, but made excuses. He left you by yourself to face what's coming, and you never got the memo he left. So, now you're holding down the fort by yourself, looking even more incompetent.

    It's pointless to ask you to explain these results, because you're not very knowledgeable (and you're too dishonest to admit you're wrong, anyway). But that doesn't mean I can't comment on your incompetence. So, every time you randomly bring up something I've said years ago, I'll post it in an appropriate thread where the results speak for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gihanga_Rwanda View Post
    That’s simply not true. In this study, ANA shares more genetic drift with Mota and the main Yoruba clade than Eurasians including Basal Eurasian. There’s a reason why they were able to successfully model Taforalt as 73% ancient Dzudzuana and 27% Mbuti compared to 55% Dzudzauna and 45% ANA.
    Wrong, ANA is definitely closer to the OOA group than to any SSAs. Mota has eurasian admixture as well. ANA in their pure form likely looked like middle eastern people, not any black people.

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