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Thread: Neither Christianization nor Islamization were peaceful processes.46 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    This is a misconception. Sassanian clergy did try to convert Armenians and Chinese during Tang dynasty, but they were purged during Great Anti-Buddhist persecution. Nothing in the Gathas indicates it was meant for a specific ethnicity exclusively. The Gathas is typically considered the most important scripture.
    It doesn't matter. Zoroastrianism by and large, has only been practiced by Iranian peoples, so it's an Iranian ethnic religion regardless of how universal and non-ethnic it is in its doctrines.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    The same applies to Zoroastrianism. Zarathustra never intended his religion for one specific ethnic group. It's actually a universalist religion which involves every human being choosing asha over druj.
    Well, Zarathustra and his subsequent followers failed in spreading Zoroastrianism beyond Iranian peoples, wouldn't you say? Looks like Jews were more worldly and also more efficient at propaganda than Iranians even back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    However, the Gathas was preserved, and it dates to 1100-800 BCE. It has no ethnic exclusionist message. This is why I recommended you read it.
    It doesn't matter. No one is going to convert to Zoroastrianism en masse today. Especially not entire ethnic groups.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    If you read the Gathas, then you will see it is basically like Christianity minus the Jesus worship. I am not exaggerating.
    Well I personally like Jesus, regardless of if he was God incarnate or not, I think he was a cool and righteous man. So why would I be interested in Zoroastrianism if it's Christianity minus Jesus? Jesus is like the best thing about Christianity. It's not like people would convert to Christianity if it was all about some old Jewish prophets banging their heads in the wall if you know what I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Not really. There are very scholarly translations of many sutras. I have spent copious hours analyzing the Platform, Diamond, and other sutras. I have read high-caliber translations too.
    Okay, duly noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    In fact, I probably have a stronger theological background than you in world religions.
    You probably have. Doesn't mean my reasons to reject Paganism and other non-Christian religions, aren't valid reasons.
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    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    It doesn't matter. Zoroastrianism by and large, has only been practiced by Iranian peoples, so it's an Iranian ethnic religion regardless of how universal and non-ethnic it is in its doctrines.
    When analyzing a religion, you first look at the doctrines, then inspect its historical trends. While what you say is true, in a historical context, it is false in a doctrinal sense, as you've agreed. This means there is future possibility Zoroastrianism may grow in both the West and West Asia, and we both agree it is better than Islam. If you read the Gathas, you will see it has more wisdom to share than Christianity too.

    Zarathustra had a lot of steppe admixture, so we could make the argument he was approximately 40-50% White. However, this is not an important point to the religion per se, but I am just saying there can be ethnic justifications for Europeans following him over Jesus. Jesus had no White admixture unlike Zarathustra.

    Well, Zarathustra and his subsequent followers failed in spreading Zoroastrianism beyond Iranian peoples, wouldn't you say? Looks like Jews were more worldly and also more efficient at propaganda than Iranians even back then.
    We won't give up.

    It doesn't matter. No one is going to convert to Zoroastrianism en masse today. Especially not entire ethnic groups.
    Weirder things have happened historically, so there is possibility Zoroastrianism may grow. You never know. The fact the Gathas was preserved gives it a strong potential of growth.

    Well I personally like Jesus, regardless of if he was God incarnate or not, I think he was a cool and righteous man. So why would I be interested in Zoroastrianism if it's Christianity minus Jesus? Jesus is like the best thing about Christianity. It's not like people would convert to Christianity if it was all about some old Jewish prophets banging their heads in the wall if you know what I mean.
    Zarathustra was more righteous than Jesus because he never claimed to be God incarnate and preached a similar message of truth and peacefulness. Every human being has the free will to choose asha over druj, and one can reach Zarathustra's righteousness through good Good Thoughts, Good Words, and Good Deeds.

    You probably have. Doesn't mean my reasons to reject Paganism and other non-Christian religions, aren't valid reasons.
    It is wrong to lump Zoroastrianism up with Germanic paganism. This is because the latter had barely any texts survive whereas the former has the Gathas and a few others.
    Last edited by An Shigao; 2019-01-07 at 03:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Christianization was, in all likelihood, just as brutal of a process than Islamization. Let me explain why.
    "In all likelihood", you sound so objective.

    The early Christians were heavily persecuted in the first 300 years by the rulers of the Roman Empire, who were Pagans at the time. Muhammedans on the other hand, spread Islam by waging aggressive war and persecuting everyone who wasn't Muslim, in the first 150 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    In Iran, we find at least 20,000 Zoroastrians in Yazd in unbroken patrilineal continuity to mobeds of Sassanian era. However, we do not find a single group worshiping European Sol Invictus, Mithras, or Germanic figures (e.g., Druids, Odin) preserving and maintaining traditions/cults, while in unbroken patrilineal continuity, dating to pre-Christian times. In fact, Europeans had to reconstruct the pagan beliefs because no extant cult existed.
    So what? How is that evidence that Christianity was spread throughout Europe, with violence? A key component in Christianity is a basic intolerance of other deities. Doesn't mean believers of said deities have to be killed, but with Christianity growing, those deities would eventually no longer be worshiped.

    The reason why Germanic and Celtic deities aren't worshiped today, is because these cultures were largely illiterate. This is also why there aren't that much preserved writings today about Odin, Thor, Taranis, Cernunnos, Perkunos or what have you. Obviously Christianity with its strong roots in literacy, and Jews with their high verbal IQ, wouldn't face much theological difficulty in outmaneuvering oral religions with barely any scriptures. This is also why Christianity never really won out in India, or Iran, because these regions and religions a had strong local culture of literacy. With southern Europe, it's a bit of a different story. Yes, the Roman Empire and also ancient Greece, had writing and all, but Christianity became a state religion in the Roman Empire, and you know, Italians and fascism and so on, so they made Christianity mandatory for everyone after that. But I don't think it counts in the same way, when government is involved. It's not like the early apostles were spreading Christianity through the sword. Only the first 300 years of Christianity counts, in how Christianity was spread. Obviously after that, when governments and soldiers and crusades and shit like that got involved, it's not really the same thing.

    Also back then, the hoi polloi weren't exactly intellectuals who read tons of literature every week. Writing in general in the old days, was mostly known by the elites and scribes and so on. It wasn't that difficult to convince the average guy on the street to start digging Jesus. It's only after the printing press was invented, that literacy became a lot more common, and even then, it wasn't like the 99% literacy rate we have today, in take say, the 1700s.

    Anyway, an important difference between Islam's violent distribution throughout MENA and the generally peaceful spread of Christianity in Europe, is that with Islam, in less than 130 years, Islam had become a global empire. How long did it take for Europe to become fully Christian? Around 1700 years. It's not like Europeans were in a violent rush and frenzy to Christianize everyone around them. They fought some wars among themselves like they've always been doing since Pagan times, and occasionally when a non-Christian country or group lost, the other side was like, yo, it's time for you to get to know some Jesus magic, and that was that.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    I find it humorous whenever I see European nationalists describe themselves as Christian. In fact, you are more Semitic in spirit and mentality whenever you do this. Christianity is not indigenous to Europe. You should at the very least attempt to reconstruct your pre-Christian traditions, especially the cult of Sol Invictus, if you value your "European" heritage so dearly. It is pathetic that I know more about your histories and cultures before Christianity than you people do.
    What exactly is "Semitic mentality"? Please enlighten us.

    And more importantly, what makes you think Iranians don't have a Semitic mentality, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Islamization was a brutal process in Iran, don't get me wrong. Rashidun and Turks were both genocidal maniacs, but for some odd reason, we retained pocket communities that preserved Pre-Islamic beliefs whereas Europeans utterly failed at this.
    A simple explanation to this, is that Europeans didn't actually fail at it, but that they left their old pagan religions on their own, precisely because they weren't persecuted enough. Whereas with Iranian Zoroastrians, due to all the Islamic persecution they've suffered, they persevered with their non-Islamic religion. Persecution can strengthen the ingroup identity you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Note, Iran even had more pocket communities of Zoroastrians in Tabaristan, called "Paduspanid dynasty", and Shiraz until Safavid invasions of 15th century CE, which forced a brutal process of Shia conversion on the population. Regardless, at least a small community of Zoroastrians survived in Yazd, one that many Iranian nationalists value moreso than Islam.
    Okay, good for them. I personally prefer Zoroastrian Iranians over Muslim Iranians, so respect to these guys for going their own way. However, I think your Varg Vikernes inspired neo-Paganism, is just faggotry.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Do you think Europeans just dropped their Indo-European myths and suddenly became Christian on their free will?
    For the most part, yes. Of course there were some notable exceptions, such as Lithuanians, Slavs and also Finns, who were the recipients of minor crusades (this was basically Swedes and Germans, telling their bros to get on with the program, lol). And Charlemagne also did some Christian Jihad. But by and large, yeah. Do keep in mind, that southern Europeans, Romans especially, waged war against Christianity in the first 300 years. That's why it's ironic when anyone says Christianity was spread to Europeans through violence; it was the opposite. Southern Europeans were the first Europeans who came in contact with Christianity, and initially they didn't like it. The Roman political class was quite anti-Christian, for various reasons.

    Later on, when Christianity reached northern and eastern Europe through southern Europe, the spread of Christianity was really effective because Germanic, Celtic and Slavic Europeans were all basically illiterate back then, and Jesus' message is quite powerful. Aside from that, the Bible also meant the introduction of literacy and a general advance from oral culture to reading and writing.

    So some minor Pagan pockets in Europe occasionally had Christianity shoved down their throats, so what? Doesn't mean all Europeans back then had Christianity forced upon them. Not even the majority. Pagan Europeans back then constantly waged war against each other, some wars were quite violent given the primitive weapons. At some point, Europeans began converting to Christianity in increasingly large numbers, in part, because they wanted to get away from tribal/religious wars (the old Pagan religious were very violent and warlike religions, all of them, not just the ancient Assyrian religion), so occasionally they were like telling each other, convert to Christianity or die.

    Anyway, how does all this concern you? Why are you bothered by Europeans having been converted to Christianity through violence?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    You are deluded as fuck if that's what you believe, especially with figures like Charlemagne and more.
    Are you insinuating that Charlemagne by force converted all Europeans to Christianity?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    If I saw an Iranian nationalist who called himself Muslim, I'd mock him too, so don't think I'm a cuck that will give you knucklehead American and European Christcucks a free pass.
    Iranian Muslims are cucks, true. However, European Christians aren't cucks. If anything, it's usually the European atheists who are the biggest cucks; European atheists are heavyweight champions of multiculturalism, third world immigration, feminism and similar leftist causes. You know, like the ultimate cuck, the poster boy of cuckism, Christopher Hitchens.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Go back to worshiping a megalomaniac rabbi, one that I take glee in his crucifixion; that pedophile, warmongerer Muhammad can join him on that cross too and both can eat shit in hell. Both Islam and Christianity are stupid.
    What exactly is your beef with Christianity? I hate Islam with a passion, but I have totally valid reasons to hate Islam; you don't have any valid reasons to hate Christianity. Christianity has never harmed Iran or been a major religion in Iran.

    And anyway, your autistic rants aside, Christianity is not as bad as Islam. Christianity is much better than Islam. Christianity is for humans, whereas Islam is for animals (literally). Christianity is about human domestication, in the sense that the golden rule is a central aspect of Christianity, and if you follow the teachings of Jesus and so on, you get kindness, relatively benevolent, civilized societies like most of Europe is today. Whereas with Islam it's just barbaric punishments over minor shit, like a wife cheating on her husband and the next day she gets stoned to death, cutting off a child's hand for stealing and similar stupidity, and of course, the genocidal nature of Islam. This stupid bullshit you Pagan faggots keep POV-pushing, that Christianity is just as bad as Islam, that's just politically correct faggotry. Fuck off and stop pretending like you have a cause, much less a religious or political movement.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2019-01-07 at 05:34.
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    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    So some minor Pagan pockets in Europe occasionally had Christianity shoved down their throats, so what? Doesn't mean all Europeans back then had Christianity forced upon them.
    I think there was more forced conversion than your account.

    Anyway, how does all this concern you? Why are you bothered by Europeans having been converted to Christianity through violence?
    Christianity has many positive elements deriving from Greek and Persian influence, but its negative elements are inane and seem unlikely to grow in Europe without enforcement. You are literally told a random Jew was the son of God, and one should worship him above all else. I referenced a topic where I gave more nuanced criticism, but I just find it hard to believe this religion grew naturally in Europe. In fact, Mithraism or Zoroastrianism's growth would make more sense because it does not involve worshiping a Semitic figure, and Zarathustra was half White and never preached something so inane. It is as if Christians will drink the water Jesus used to wash his feet any moment.

    What exactly is your beef with Christianity? I hate Islam with a passion, but I have totally valid reasons to hate Islam; you don't have any valid reasons to hate Christianity. Christianity has never harmed Iran or been a major religion in Iran.
    Heraclius burned many Zoroastrian fire temples.

    Christianity is about human domestication, in the sense that the golden rule is a central aspect of Christianity, and if you follow the teachings of Jesus and so on, you get kindness, relatively benevolent, civilized societies like most of Europe is today.
    The Gathas pretty much teaches the same thing without the ridiculous worship of a rabbi as god-incarnate.
    Last edited by An Shigao; 2019-01-07 at 04:44.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    The Gathas was preserved and dates to 1100-800 BCE. It was largely uncorrupted too. It's as simple as reading the various translations of the Gathas and seeing if you agree with it or not.
    Who cares, your personal extra special interpretation of the Gathas is not superior to 2000+ years of Church Tradition. If only some of you retards put the amount of time you come on these forums into real life, you would not be here as much as you are. Regardless, I could tell right off the bat you are an anti-intellectual idiot.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Zarathustra had a lot of steppe admixture, so we could make the argument he was approximately 40-50% White. However, this is not an important point to the religion per se, but I am just saying there can be ethnic justifications for Europeans following him over Jesus. Jesus had no White admixture unlike Zarathustra. In fact, Mithraism or Zoroastrianism's growth would make more sense because it does not involve worshiping a Semitic figure, and Zarathustra was half White and never preached something so inane. It is as if Christians will drink the water Jesus used to wash his feet any moment.
    Persian culture was never similar to European. Particularly, Zoroastrian culture which is more alien to Europeans than Islam is. Zoroastrians were okay with close incest, they were literally offended by spitting into a fire, they thought bulls piss was cleansing and cleaned themselves with piss after handling the dead. You don't know what you're talking about. They didn't believe in destiny which is a common Christian theme. The ideas you've listed seem like they move with European morals but Zoroastrians are waaay different. You'll have more in common with Iranian Shiites, Christianity has literally more in common with western values than Zoroastrianism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    I refuse to engage you further as you continue yelling racial slurs. Just shut the fuck up, you insulting snow nigger. Also, I do not look anything like Ahmadinejad. I look like the guy in my actual avatar, and since I don't look like a typical Iranian, it makes it easier to blend in to "teach rude people like you a lesson". Just think about the kind of grudge you're instilling me with.
    You have no power over us, you ugly cunt. The white core of the nation maintains all the wealth and power, there are almost 200 million of us. If your people aren't handed a free education and free job by a white man they are totally fucking useless. Literally nothing you can say will change that. Your country is a worthless backwater, it's only useful as a pawn for playing power politics with nuclear states. Just accept your place as a vassal. Oh btw, I'm going to ignore that everyone there is living in squalor and misery and I am too much of a pussy to go back there to help them, I'd rather leech off the white mans civilization. Your dissonance is rather amusing, but you really need to stop putting your own pussy on a pedestal here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Who cares, your personal extra special interpretation of the Gathas is not superior to 2000+ years of Church Tradition. If only some of you retards put the amount of time you come on these forums into real life, you would not be here as much as you are. Regardless, I could tell right off the bat you are an anti-intellectual idiot.
    There is more to European culture than just Christianity. For example, I find more worth in Schopenhauer than the nonsense of St. Thomas Aquinas, which I have indeed read.

    Why don't you actually read the Gathas? I recommend Mary Boyce's translation, before speaking out of your ass? I have read significant portions of the Bible and Gathas, so at least my criticisms aren't based on misconceptions like yours.

    Some mobeds, especially during Sassanian era (like Kartir Hangirpe), had weird ritualistic interpretations not aligned with the Gathas.

    Persian culture was never similar to European.
    Is that why the words "paradise" and "magic" have Persian origins? "Paradise" originated from "pairi daeza" in Avestan. There were definitely influences like believing in a supernatural order in things (asha) and good vs. evil. There was no idea of metaphysical good vs. evil prior to Zoroastrian influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    You have no power over us, you ugly cunt. The white core of the nation maintains all the wealth and power, there are almost 200 million of us. If your people aren't handed a free education and free job by a white man they are totally fucking useless. Literally nothing you can say will change that. Your country is a worthless backwater, it's only useful as a pawn for playing power politics with nuclear states. Just accept your place as a vassal. Oh btw, I'm going to ignore that everyone there is living in squalor and misery and I am too much of a pussy to go back there to help them, I'd rather leech off the white mans civilization. Your dissonance is rather amusing, but you really need to stop putting your own pussy on a pedestal here.
    Listen, you stupid politicized snow nigger hick. This topic is not about contemporary politics. All contemporary politics is temporary, you retarded hicks. I am thinking about history and not the present. The present is not necessarily a cogent reflection of the past either, given how mercurial mankind may be on both a collective and individual level.
    Last edited by An Shigao; 2019-01-12 at 18:08.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    There is more to European culture than just Christianity. For example, I find more worth in Schopenhauer than the nonsense of St. Thomas Aquinas, which I have indeed read.
    Iranian culture is not identical to European culture. Iranians do not share the same foods, music, language, or customs of wiping your ass with toilet paper like we do. Hell, they even read squiggly writing backwards, and you call this identical to European culture. European culture is the striving for infinity. The Norse will to power, manifest destiny and exploration. A Gothic cathedrals ability to move upwards towards infinity and the open and infinite space. Striving for continuous motion, discovering calculus, art being about depth and the limitless feeling of classical music. All of this is European culture some created by Northern Europeans and not Persians.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Why don't you actually read the Gathas? I recommend Mary Boyce's translation, before speaking out of your ass? I have read significant portions of the Bible and Gathas, so at least my criticisms aren't based on misconceptions like yours.
    Nope, you know nothing of the religion you despise and you make a fool out of yourself every time you speak. You've never considered the idea that there is a logical progression in European religions from ancient religions to Christianity, that these religions served as stepping stones to Christianity? Judeo-Christianity is a term that only began with the introduction of the Scofield Bible and only attained widespread use after WW2 and Vatican II, conveniently directed by three Jewish conversos. Christians are not your enemies no matter how much you try to convince yourself of that, we don't have anything bad to say about you, but we aren't you and you certainly weren't us.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Some mobeds, especially during Sassanian era (like Kartir Hangirpe), had weird ritualistic interpretations not aligned with the Gathas.
    And they still follow it. Some are actually Persians, others are one of the different ethnicities that encroached on Iranian clay and try to steal its identity. All of them however betrayed their culture and heritage. Faggot diaspora try to steal everyone else's history all the time and that didn't change when they began stealing European history. No self-respecting Zoroastrian wants to be associated with your people, deal with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Is that why the words "paradise" and "magic" have Persian origins? "Paradise" originated from "pairi daeza" in Avestan. There were definitely influences like believing in a supernatural order in things (asha) and good vs. evil. There was no idea of metaphysical good vs. evil prior to Zoroastrian influence.
    The word "Hell" seems to derive from the Norse word Hel, most certainly a pre-Christian concept. There are countless examples of Hell-like afterlives portrayed in pagan mythology. Also I know dualism is a big part of Zoroastrianism, but its a big part of other pre-Christian religions too such as in Egypt, but the Christian world view isn't perfect dualism, as Christians believe that good in the end will eventually destroy evil. Without getting stuck in a religious argument wouldn't one expect Jesus' teachings and Buddha to correlate when it comes to the way we should treat each other? I don't buy that they necessarily influenced each other writings, and I think the same can be said of a few of the other entries. I like reading of similarities in religion because it makes me remember that we are all connected as human beings and searching for the same goal, although I would still never denounce my faith.

    Your whole life you've been told something and you internalized it. The concept of religion is one you yourself have internalized after hearing about it from people older than you. There have been so many religions in the past, and many people of different beliefs talk the same way you do. It's a matter of dogmatic belief to make yourself feel better when you realize you lack the ability to think for yourself. Your concept of religion is completely inconsistent and entirely devoid of anything that helps the people on Earth right now. Imagine you're in the woods since birth. Would you believe in Heaven? Would you know what Heaven is? Would you have any concept of Good vs. Evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    Listen, you stupid politicized snow nigger hick. This topic is not about contemporary politics. All contemporary politics is temporary, you retarded hicks. I am thinking about history and not the present. The present is not necessarily a cogent reflection of the past either, given how mercurial mankind may be on both a collective and individual level.
    I'm a snow nigger hick simply because I pissed you off about the sore truth of your sand nigger race. I've never met anyone more pathetic than the Iranians, your people are quite simply obsessed with plastic surgery, their beak noses, their skin color, they are in complete denial about what they are, a very low form of life indeed. How do you live with yourself being such a massive reject not only to us but as a race against itself? You need to go extinct, phased out by anal cancer, which is what you are to this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Iranian culture is not identical to European culture. Iranians do not share the same foods, music, language, or customs of wiping your ass with toilet paper like we do. Hell, they even read squiggly writing backwards, and you call this identical to European culture. European culture is the striving for infinity. The Norse will to power, manifest destiny and exploration. A Gothic cathedrals ability to move upwards towards infinity and the open and infinite space. Striving for continuous motion, discovering calculus, art being about depth and the limitless feeling of classical music. All of this is European culture some created by Northern Europeans and not Persians.
    I'm not saying European and Persian cultures are identical. I said the latter did influence European culture to some moderate effect in Pre-Islamic times. Granted, of course they are different.

    And they still follow it. Some are actually Persians, others are one of the different ethnicities that encroached on Iranian clay and try to steal its identity. All of them however betrayed their culture and heritage. Faggot diaspora try to steal everyone else's history all the time and that didn't change when they began stealing European history. No self-respecting Zoroastrian wants to be associated with your people, deal with it.
    There were different sects and interpretations of Zoroastrianism, like Zurvanism and Mazdakism. The point is, the Gathas is the foundational text. It's as simple as reading the Gathas, seeing if you agree or disagree with it. The religion was meant to be universalist, which is why Sassanids even had missionaries in China. It's simple: Read the Gathas and see if you agree or disagree with it. The Gathas dates to 1100-800 BCE and still reads very eloquently.

    The foundational text for my sect of Mahayana Buddhism, Zen, is Platform Sutra by Hui Neng btw.

    The word "Hell" seems to derive from the Norse word Hel, most certainly a pre-Christian concept. There are countless examples of Hell-like afterlives portrayed in pagan mythology. Also I know dualism is a big part of Zoroastrianism, but its a big part of other pre-Christian religions too such as in Egypt, but the Christian world view isn't perfect dualism, as Christians believe that good in the end will eventually destroy evil. Without getting stuck in a religious argument wouldn't one expect Jesus' teachings and Buddha to correlate when it comes to the way we should treat each other? I don't buy that they necessarily influenced each other writings, and I think the same can be said of a few of the other entries. I like reading of similarities in religion because it makes me remember that we are all connected as human beings and searching for the same goal, although I would still never denounce my faith.
    There was tremendous influence of Zoroastrianism on Christianity during its early stages:

    Summary of Chapter 7 of Michael Stausberg's Zarathustra and Zoroastrianism. It was actually written by Anders Hultgard.

    During the Achaemenid Empire, Cyrus the Great freed Jews from Babylonian captivity, allowing them to practice their religion, and contact between Jews and Persians continued in the Hellenistic and Roman periods. In the Hebrew Bible, Cyrus the Great is referred to as the “Messiah” by Isaiah, making him the only gentile to be praised to such high regards, and other kings such as Darius, Xerxes, and Artaxerxes are frequently mentioned; the books Esther and Daniel, draws significantly from the life at the Persian royal court, and the feast in the Book of Esther, celebrating the liberation of magus Haman’s evil plot, is an adaptation of the Iranian Farvardigan. Palestine was also under Persian rule for two-hundred years and there were large Jewish diaspora in Western Iran and Mesopotamia; the religious ideas of the imperial elite most likely became well-known by the Jews, and the Judaism, being a minority religion without a state to back the authority of the faith, did not arouse much interest in the Persians. Due to the following significant interactions between Persians and Jews, there is substantial reason to believe Zoroastrianism heavily influenced the Judeo-Christian tradition with the dualism between the forces of good and evil, introduction of angels, personified evil figures (e.g., Asmodeus is based off daeva Aēšma), the eschatological reward for the just and punishment for the wicked, the struggle between truth (Av. Asha) and lie (Av. Druj), and the resurrection of the dead (check Yasna 19). The idea of a “Day of Judgment” (Hebrew Yohm Ha Din) can be traced to Zoroastrianism’s ‘Frashokereti’, when fire cleanses the world of all evil or defilement, and the belief of the soul reaching paradise can, likewise, be claimed to originate from the Zoroastrian concept “Chinvat Bridge”; a fragment of Qumran caves describes the Day of Judgment as a “bridge of the abyss”, and analogously, Zoroastrians believed in the hereafter, one will come across the Chinvat Bridge guarded by holy dogs. If the person lived a noble life, the bridge will expand and allow them to reach the end, whereby the yazata Daena shall take them up to Ohrmazd’s “House of Song”, but if they lived ignoble lives, it shall contract as narrow as reed as Daena, now a daeva, will pull them into Ahriman’s “House of Lies”. Moreover, the idea of a savior who will lead the world unto light can be traced to the concept the ‘Saoshyant’. Even the word paradise is based off the Avestan pairi daeza. One final note, considering Islam came from Judeo-Christian tradition, there are many indirect Zoroastrian influences on it; the descriptions of paradise as a flowering garden in the Koran descend from Zoroastrian influence, and several yazatas such as Hordād (Av. Haurvatat) and Amurdād (Av. Amərətāt) appear in the Koran.

    Your whole life you've been told something and you internalized it. The concept of religion is one you yourself have internalized after hearing about it from people older than you. There have been so many religions in the past, and many people of different beliefs talk the same way you do. It's a matter of dogmatic belief to make yourself feel better when you realize you lack the ability to think for yourself. Your concept of religion is completely inconsistent and entirely devoid of anything that helps the people on Earth right now. Imagine you're in the woods since birth. Would you believe in Heaven? Would you know what Heaven is? Would you have any concept of Good vs. Evil?
    Well, yes, I would believe there is something metaphysically significant about compassion.

    Nope, you know nothing of the religion you despise and you make a fool out of yourself every time you speak. You've never considered the idea that there is a logical progression in European religions from ancient religions to Christianity, that these religions served as stepping stones to Christianity? Judeo-Christianity is a term that only began with the introduction of the Scofield Bible and only attained widespread use after WW2 and Vatican II, conveniently directed by three Jewish conversos. Christians are not your enemies no matter how much you try to convince yourself of that, we don't have anything bad to say about you, but we aren't you and you certainly weren't us.
    I tend to prefer more Gnostic interpretations, which is why I like the Gospel of Thomas a lot. I also think Cathars were truer to the message of pre-St. Augustine Christianity. There's a good book about St. Augustine I plan to read, which talks about he never really left his Manichaean influence. He was just pissed he could never become an Elect, so he had say nonsense like "suffering has a cleansing effect". It doesn't really. Mani and the Mandeans have a more accurate interpretation of the nature of suffering, which is simply nonsensical and leads to an endless chasing after the wind.

    I'm a snow nigger hick simply because I pissed you off about the sore truth of your sand nigger race. I've never met anyone more pathetic than the Iranians, your people are quite simply obsessed with plastic surgery, their beak noses, their skin color, they are in complete denial about what they are, a very low form of life indeed. How do you live with yourself being such a massive reject not only to us but as a race against itself? You need to go extinct, phased out by anal cancer, which is what you are to this forum.
    Iranian Americans are model minorities who excel in STEM. They only tend to get plastic surgery on their noses and not entire faces, unlike South Koreans. All of your insults are based on memes because you have a shallow, insipid mind.

    You are a stupid hick living in the Deep South. In my opinion, one's library speaks more about one's level of intelligence and wisdom than IQ score. If we were to compare our libraries, you would undeniably acknowledge how your mind is inferior to mine. I am much more educated, wise, and even handsome than you (i.e., I look like the main in my avatar). You are the one being aggressive.

    I actually find many elements of cultures to respect, from Chinese to European. Many of my favorite writers are of various ethnicities, and yes, I have many favorite Iranian writers too. I am actually not a racist man.

    Also, I think beak noses can be cool because it makes one look like a bird. I love birds.

    that we are all connected as human beings and searching for the same goal,
    Buddhas are beyond being human, the Tathagata being unfathomable. There is a part of me that is beyond humanity that I am able to focus on more deeply within samadhi. We are not connected, but we are all connected to something that upends all human constructs in its tide. Before you know it, when you become old, your mind will deteriorate and you will forget the function of a key, maybe even from Alzehimer's. Aging is more surreal than any drug, and this world is like a dream within a dream.

    You have to understand that I am far wiser and knowledgeable than you in every regard, and if we were simply to compare libraries, this would be undeniable. In your case, the clouds of delusion obscure the luminescent moon to the point to the point not even a crepuscular ray can be glimpsed. Why? Because ultimately I apprehend my true nature of Infinity through getting daily solitude and reading high quality literature.
    Last edited by An Shigao; 2019-01-13 at 18:19.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    I'm not saying European and Persian cultures are identical. I said the latter did influence European culture to some moderate effect in Pre-Islamic times. Granted, of course they are different.
    Nope, it's the other way round. Ancient Greeks introduced pederasty to the Persians. Herodotus said that Persians also copulate with boys, a practice they learned from the Hellenes. Plato listed pederasty, philosophy, and nude sports as three defining features that separated the Greeks from barbarians.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    The point is, the Gathas is the foundational text. It's as simple as reading the Gathas, seeing if you agree or disagree with it. It's simple: Read the Gathas and see if you agree or disagree with it. The Gathas dates to 1100-800 BCE and still reads very eloquently.
    Nope. Why have you been posting this shit to every reply today? Seriously take your fetish away. Most of the books of Zoroastrianism date to about 1300 AD. Not a shred of evidence exists that it dates back farther then that. Zoroaster's birth dates back to 251 years before the reign of Alexander the Great. Which is about 500-600 BC. Some scholars have tried to cite evidence that it dates back to 1700 BC because of the similarities with Hindu books, but they have now backed off that claim. So most scholars still would say the best evidence is about 500-600 BC.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    There was tremendous influence of Zoroastrianism on Christianity during its early stages.
    Zoroastrianism was created after the prophets of the Old Testament (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel) lived on Earth. So who was influencing whom? Avesta was not completed until Sasanian Empire. It was Daniel who influenced Zoroastrianism, exposing the Magi to much of the Book of Isaiah (written around 750 BC), most Zoroastrian texts are dated around the time of Daniel and much later, liberal scholars always attempt to discount the influence of Daniel. Look at the language in the texts, and you can see the chronology fits Daniel's time period, with the Book of the Law (The Torah) and the Book of Isaiah as predated influences. Why do you think the Persians allowed the Jews to return to their homeland? Daniel's influence and Isaiah's prophecy. There is no real hell in Judaism as well. After the Jews entered the Persian Empire, and up until Christianity, the concepts of Zoroastrianism (heaven and hell, good vs. evil, angels and demons) had a great influence. However after the advent of Christianity, Judaism slowly returned to it's pre-Zoroastrian beliefs. The Roman Empire was a magnet for philosophical and intellectual discussion, and it is highly likely that even in its remote outposts there were discussions and talks about religion and philosophy. It's incredulous as to why we should contend that similarities in moral or linguistic contentions prove that the Christianity is influenced by earlier teachings or mythologies. More so the ineptitude conveyed in the vexatious understanding of Biblical doctrines.

    In most cases, the similarities are superficial and not deep, like ticking off the boxes of Joseph Campbell's mythic structure. Because the story of Superman is similar to the story of Hercules, there must be truth in them both. Most of the similarities are based on a notion of a faulty cause and effect. Similar documents written prior to the Bible don't actually prove that the Bible is an unreliable source. Most of these are based on an assumption of naturalism as well which also can't be proven. To put it another way, can't God speak through people if he wanted to and clarify certain true aspects to other cultures at the same time? It depends on what you assume to begin with in this case and which assumption makes mores sense out of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    I tend to prefer more Gnostic interpretations, which is why I like the Gospel of Thomas a lot. I also think Cathars were truer to the message of pre-St. Augustine Christianity.
    The Cathars were heretics. But the sect was actually surprisingly progressive in terms of gender equality, men and women were treated no differently, since the soul has no gender, but they gradually became more and more misogynistic until it eventually fell out of favor. Anyway, some things are better left unsaid.

    Quote Originally Posted by An Shigao View Post
    We are not connected, but we are all connected to something that upends all human constructs in its tide. Before you know it, when you become old, your mind will deteriorate and you will forget the function of a key, maybe even from Alzehimer's. Aging is more surreal than any drug, and this world is like a dream within a dream.
    I have never read anything that suggests our perception of time is actually altered by the effects of aging. I guess if you imagine a fantasy world, where someone can avoid getting old some other way than death then it can make you say "what the fuck happened". But for those with a base in reality it is nothing but success.
    Last edited by Odin; 2019-01-14 at 09:44.

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