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Thread: Batutsi/Bahima_Y-DNA&mt-DNA75 days old

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espoir View Post
    Apart from banyamulenge of South Kivu, there is Congolese Tutsis that live in North Kivu in areas of Rutchuru near Goma. There is also other people called Ba(Hema), these are not to be mistaken from Ba(Hima) of Uganda. We all are related to Tutsis and Himas, and are all Pastoralists.
    Interesting and noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Espoir View Post
    That's so wrong and sooo ignorant! Tutsi is an umbrella term that Europeans used to differentiate all those related pastoral people from the rest of people of the great lakes region. Tutsis were only found in Rwanda, Burundi and even North Kivu. I myself does not consider myself Tutsi, but that's how the world knows me. So, when I'm talking to the world, to ease communication, I accept when they label me Tutsi. However, if I'm talking to someone from the great lakes region, I say, I'm Munyamulenge. Confusing... I know!
    Yeah, when I looked up your ethnic group some sources were saying you guys are sometimes labeled "Congolese Tutsis" I had a feeling something was off.

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    I don't understand how @Meygaag calls the folks here who belong to the Great Lakes pastoralist ethnic groups as desperate to align themselves with the wider Cushitic/Erythrean pastoralist horizon when

    1) the majority or near half of their ancestry is from there and

    2) a very large portion of their culture and traditions stems from their. And thats minimziong it. Their entire lifestyle is a ancient offshoot of southward thrust of that horizon.

    I mean, if you don't see any relation between Somalos and Tutsis, the Hima, Hema, and the like - your emotions mean nothing when the evidenxe is strongly contridictory to your position.

    I have friends from various Southeast African pastoralist communities, such as Masais, Ormas, an Somali pastoralist communities near the Serengeti.

    This is like telling me studying my pliestocene Dzudzuana-like West Eurasian ancestry that makes up 40-45% of my ancestry and likely my mtdna (I) is desperation to align with West Eurasain populations and hide my ANA and other more inland African ancestries.

    Tell that to the Europeans who obsesses over lesser fractions of Steppe ancestry that these Tutsis do their Cushitic one. Maybe the Europeans shpudl focus on their predominate Neolithic Middle Eastern ancestries?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    I have not seen any new studies on Tutsi/Bahima Y haplogroups. The study from 15 years ago is valid. The only thing that changed from that study is that E3a is is now E1b1a, a nomenclature change/change of nomenclature. I like to see true honest discussion here as much as you do, but I fear, however, that will never be possible here because people are taking and using these genowide studies and Y haplogroups for reason that have nothing to do with science and everything to do with ideology and craeting new social constructs.

    I am an Afro-American, I would not care if my ancestry was East, West, North, South African, Cushitic, Nilotic, Khoisan or whatever, it would never change who I am socially and identity wise in the country I am in. We have idiots in here claiming people to be their "genetic kinsmen" based on how some groups plot on a PCA, and creating new artificial constructs, and then trying to act as the spokesman for all such people that they plot near in a PCA. Thats a piss poor terrible way to use science to fabricate and lay claim to people you "socially" share nothing with identity wise. People can plot of a PCA for a number of reasons that have nothing to do with being so called genetic kinsmen. I have seen highly mixed Aframs plot close to some Nilotics and some other east African groups on PCAs and it has everything to do with their European component pulling them in a certain direction and not any real shared genetic ancestry directly with East Africans or Nilotics. This is what I mean when I say we have idiots creating stupid new constructs based on PCAs and then they are with other people to stop claiming "their genetic kinsmen."
    The 2004 aDNA is vague hutu/tutsi average not exclusively Tutsi autosomal. Poor study.
    Excoffier et al. (1987) found that the Tutsi and Hima, despite being surrounded by Bantu populations, are "closer genetically to Cushites and Ethiosemites".[3][4]
    Excoffier et al (1987) found that Tutsi /Hima autosomal are closer genetically to Cushites than Bantou in general. Until we see an unbiased exclusively Tutsi study showing paternal,maternal haplogroups and autosomal DNA of Tutsi I only trust our samples on 23andme and Excoffier et al (1987) study, and Razib Khan analysis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat11 View Post
    The 2004 aDNA is vague hutu/tutsi average not exclusively Tutsi autosomal. Poor study.
    Excoffier et al. (1987) found that the Tutsi and Hima, despite being surrounded by Bantu populations, are "closer genetically to Cushites and Ethiosemites".[3][4]
    Excoffier et al (1987) found that Tutsi /Hima autosomal are closer genetically to Cushites than Bantou in general. Until we see an unbiased exclusively Tutsi study showing paternal,maternal haplogroups and autosomal DNA of Tutsi I only trust our samples on 23andme and Excoffier et al (1987) study, and Razib Khan analysis.
    Using what locus?

    - - - Updated - - -

    This study used 94 Tutsis sampled, explain to me how its biased? Is it because most of the Tutsis came out E-M2? Stop running from facts, if its biased, point out the bias.



    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/


    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarcastic View Post
    That said, I have complete respect for blacks that are actually about shit and don't blame white folk on the daily (preferably ever---e.g., Jesse Lee Peterson, or even formerly leftist aframs like Candace Owens

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    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofWorrdak View Post
    I don't understand how @Meygaag calls the folks here who belong to the Great Lakes pastoralist ethnic groups as desperate to align themselves with the wider Cushitic/Erythrean pastoralist horizon when

    1) the majority or near half of their ancestry is from there and

    2) a very large portion of their culture and traditions stems from their. And thats minimziong it. Their entire lifestyle is a ancient offshoot of southward thrust of that horizon.

    I mean, if you don't see any relation between Somalos and Tutsis, the Hima, Hema, and the like - your emotions mean nothing when the evidenxe is strongly contridictory to your position.

    I have friends from various Southeast African pastoralist communities, such as Masais, Ormas, an Somali pastoralist communities near the Serengeti.

    This is like telling me studying my pliestocene Dzudzuana-like West Eurasian ancestry that makes up 40-45% of my ancestry and likely my mtdna (I) is desperation to align with West Eurasain populations and hide my ANA and other more inland African ancestries.

    Tell that to the Europeans who obsesses over lesser fractions of Steppe ancestry that these Tutsis do their Cushitic one. Maybe the Europeans shpudl focus on their predominate Neolithic Middle Eastern ancestries?
    It would help if you would all stop calling that ancestry "Cushitic" and call it some type of East African ancestry, and this is precisely why ancestries should NOT be named "Cushitic,", Niger Congo, "Semitic," etc as it causes this type of confusion you see here. Pastoralism is not a "Cushitic" trait as it is present in Nioltes, and even some Saharan groups


    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarcastic View Post
    That said, I have complete respect for blacks that are actually about shit and don't blame white folk on the daily (preferably ever---e.g., Jesse Lee Peterson, or even formerly leftist aframs like Candace Owens

  8. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by VytautusofWorrdak View Post
    I don't understand how @Meygaag calls the folks here who belong to the Great Lakes pastoralist ethnic groups as desperate to align themselves with the wider Cushitic/Erythrean pastoralist horizon when

    1) the majority or near half of their ancestry is from there and

    2) a very large portion of their culture and traditions stems from their. And thats minimziong it. Their entire lifestyle is a ancient offshoot of southward thrust of that horizon.

    I mean, if you don't see any relation between Somalos and Tutsis, the Hima, Hema, and the like - your emotions mean nothing when the evidenxe is strongly contridictory to your position.

    I have friends from various Southeast African pastoralist communities, such as Masais, Ormas, an Somali pastoralist communities near the Serengeti.

    This is like telling me studying my pliestocene Dzudzuana-like West Eurasian ancestry that makes up 40-45% of my ancestry and likely my mtdna (I) is desperation to align with West Eurasain populations and hide my ANA and other more inland African ancestries.

    Tell that to the Europeans who obsesses over lesser fractions of Steppe ancestry that these Tutsis do their Cushitic one. Maybe the Europeans shpudl focus on their predominate Neolithic Middle Eastern ancestries?
    LOL are you claiming you have the same amounts of West Eurasian as Somalis/Oromos? You Bantus are getting out of hand.Plus the Serengeti Somalis are Dir Northern Somalis brought by the British (Ishakia community)

  9. #187
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    Default
    [
    {
    "sample": "Custom:Peter_Ngoga_scaled",
    "fit": 2.9481,
    "Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP": 60,
    "Ethiopian_Anuak": 29.17,
    "Tanzania_Pemba_700BP": 10.83,
    "Tanzania_Pemba_1400BP": 0,
    "closestDistances": [
    "Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP:I3726: 12.92413",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK17: 16.76386",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK10: 16.98254",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK13: 17.09188",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK12: 17.21192",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK18: 17.28590",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK3: 17.29861",
    "Tanzania_Pemba_1400BP:I1048: 17.52186",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK4: 17.53087",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK11: 17.54216",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK23: 17.58207",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK15: 17.67444",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK1: 17.87481",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK9: 17.91881",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK20: 18.00666",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK19: 18.18944",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK7: 18.20524",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK6: 18.24035",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK14: 18.37437",
    "Tanzania_Pemba_700BP:I2298: 24.91671"
    ]
    I know, I posted this before. Just a reminder.
    This is not a battlefield for afrocentrists and somalicentrists(if I would say). G25 nMonte results you see above are my brother's.
    How stupid would I be to claim that I'm a Southern cushite or Bantu or Nilotic? Would I cut myself in pieces to get rid of one or the other? You people stop thinking like babies, you should be mature to understand what's going on here. Who would deny this individual's 60% Luxmanda-like ancestry? Who would deny his 29% Dinka-like ancestry? Who would deny his 11% Bantu-like ancestry?
    You who think we are claiming to be horners, relax, in fact, it's horners who always want us to be from there. I get a lot of horners who confuse me as one of theirs, and after they find that I'm from Congo, they are like, "you are originally from the horn". After collecting these sample, it's hard for me to believe that we have connections to horners, since I don't see any paternal haplogroups that are from there in this sample we have so far. IMO, I think majority of our paternal ancestors are from Sudan/Egypt/Eritrea. Others West African in origin(Bantu). Our maternal side is a bit tricky, it looks very similar to those of Southern Cushitic groups of Tanzania, and that's another fact you can't deny. Again I'm referring to these findings we have here, since, those studies never showed maternal or autosomal ancestry of those 94 sampled Tutsi individuals(sooo weird).
    Last edited by Espoir; 2019-04-27 at 08:33.

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  11. #188
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    Lastly, Razib is analysing about 14 Tutsi individuals from different countries. Let's wait and see what he comes out with. I know trolls are never going away, it would be better if we try to ignore them and focus on facts in front of us. Ideas are always welcomed on this thread. Challenge anything you don't agree with(just don't be a troll).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espoir View Post
    Default
    [
    {
    "sample": "Custom:Peter_Ngoga_scaled",
    "fit": 2.9481,
    "Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP": 60,
    "Ethiopian_Anuak": 29.17,
    "Tanzania_Pemba_700BP": 10.83,
    "Tanzania_Pemba_1400BP": 0,
    "closestDistances": [
    "Tanzania_Luxmanda_3000BP:I3726: 12.92413",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK17: 16.76386",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK10: 16.98254",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK13: 17.09188",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK12: 17.21192",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK18: 17.28590",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK3: 17.29861",
    "Tanzania_Pemba_1400BP:I1048: 17.52186",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK4: 17.53087",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK11: 17.54216",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK23: 17.58207",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK15: 17.67444",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK1: 17.87481",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK9: 17.91881",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK20: 18.00666",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK19: 18.18944",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK7: 18.20524",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK6: 18.24035",
    "Ethiopian_Anuak:ANUAK14: 18.37437",
    "Tanzania_Pemba_700BP:I2298: 24.91671"
    ]
    I know, I posted this before. Just a reminder.
    This is not a battlefield for afrocentrists and somalicentrists(if I would say). G25 nMonte results you see above are my brother's.
    How stupid would I be to claim that I'm a Southern cushite or Bantu or Nilotic? Would I cut myself in pieces to get rid of one or the other? You people stop thinking like babies, you should be mature to understand what's going on here. Who would deny this individual's 60% Luxmanda-like ancestry? Who would deny his 29% Dinka-like ancestry? Who would deny his 11% Bantu-like ancestry?
    You who think we are claiming to be horners, relax, in fact, it's horners who always want us to be from there. I get a lot of horners who confuse me as one of theirs, and after they find that I'm from Congo, they are like, "you are originally from the horn". After collecting these sample, it's hard for me to believe that we have connections to horners, since I don't see any paternal haplogroups that are from there in this sample we have so far. IMO, I think majority of our paternal ancestors are from Sudan/Egypt/Eritrea. Others West African in origin(Bantu). Our maternal side is a bit tricky, it looks very similar to those of Southern Cushitic groups of Tanzania, and that's another fact you can't deny. Again I'm referring to these findings we have here, since, those studies never showed maternal or autosomal ancestry of those 94 sampled Tutsi individuals(sooo weird).
    You don't look like a Horner nor do you speak a Cushitic language.You are not Cushite and never will be one although you can claim to have minor cushitic admixture.You claiming to be from Egypt or Sudan is absurd....Cameroon is where you originally hail from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Espoir View Post
    We are called Banyamulenge and come from D.R.Congo/South Kivu/Fizi(specifically, High plateau of Itombwe). We are a semi-nomadic pastoral community. Some of us were Pastoralists from Rwanda, others Burundi,others Tanzania , others Uganda.
    I noticed that many other Congolese do not like you people, the conflict in South Kivu province is supposedly all to be blamed on your ethnic group. The claim is that Banyamulenge are just Tutsi Rwandese refugees, political opportunists...Have you heard anything like this?

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