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Thread: "Inventing the whites, what hath fog wrought" by Razib Khan130 days old

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    also aren't the mycenaean samples we have so far closer to modern greeks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason1234 View Post
    also aren't the mycenaean samples we have so far closer to modern greeks?
    Modern Greeks from.the mainland? Ohh no. They're closer to Sardinians as well as a whole host of other populations around the East Mediterranean. The post Mycenaean "Crete Armenoi" is very modern Greek like though.

    The typical Sardinian is like 9% EMBA steppe and the Mycenaeans were 13%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    You're basically saying ancient Egypt was the product of people like you. How's that not claiming their civilization?
    I am basically saying that they are BLACK, you have chosen to interpret that as me saying they were just like me in your little strawman mind, I have no made that claim. I am saying their civilization was the product of black Northeast African people, now I am not wasting my time responding to the rest of that garbage you posted as its irrelevant, now go ahead and ponder another strawman. The Abusir mummies are only three mummies of uncertain ethnic origin, a fact admitted by the authors and Abusir doesn't respresent all of ancient Egypt nor its founders as it comes from a much later period than that of the founders.


    You still owe me thousand bucks, you've lost this bet.
    I don't owe you shxt and I haven't lost anything.

    How can you not understand this? I mean it's not exactly rocket science. Greek, Germanic, Italic and basically all European languages today and in the Roman Empire era,
    Ancient Egyptian and Niger Congo languages are all African languages in the broad sense ok? But let me be real, German, Italic, and Greek, while all belonging broadly to Indo-Europeans, are all mutually unintelligible to one another, this statement of yours trying to use a broad macro-language family to connect people all as one people is retarded, end of story.




    Point is, when a Nordicist talks about how the ancient Greeks were Nordics, while he's technically wrong about that, he's still less delusional than you, because northern Europeans have infinitely more in common with ancient Greece and Rome than you and any other black African have with ancient Egypt.

    Nordicists are totally delusional, and for me to say AEs were black ancient NE African people is correct, your claim revolves around strawmaen arguments that you have made up, only your dumb ass sees Wees West Africans and Central Africans as the only authentic true Black people, thats not my position, but you use that position to not only deny ancient NE Africans were black, you use it to say modern NE Africans are not black.
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

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    "period" or "end of story" is game theory's way of saying "I haven't bothered to think logically about the topic or to do the slightest bit of real research, I literally don't know what the fuck I'm talking about and my opinion is merely an expression of my emotional state, nothing more. Period. End of story."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    I am basically saying that they are BLACK
    So you're claiming the ancient Egyptians then; why can't you stand for it that you do? I'm not saying the ancient Egyptians were Assyrians, but I'm definitely claiming them when I say they were basically Near Easterners with some minor Negroid admixture, just as for example, like modern Palestinians who are genetically a non-Arab, ex-Jewish population with around 5% Negroid admixture; they're under no circumstances Assyrians, but they're much closer to me and all other Assyrians and for that matter to Swedes and whatever European population, than they are to you and other blacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    you have chosen to interpret that as me saying they were just like me in your little strawman mind
    That's what you're saying when you say the ancient Egyptians were black. What are you saying, that you're not black now? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    I have no made that claim.
    Yes you have Charlie, yes you have! Man up and take responsibility for your statements!

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    I am saying their civilization was the product of black Northeast African people
    So where's the evidence? And why would the ancient Egyptians be a black people when their southern neighbors aren't even black? Not fully black anyway (mulatto populations aren't really black).

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    The Abusir mummies are only three mummies of uncertain ethnic origin, a fact admitted by the authors and Abusir doesn't respresent all of ancient Egypt nor its founders as it comes from a much later period than that of the founders.
    It wasn't just three mummies; three mummies with reliable autosomal DNA, but there were lots of mummies with haplogroups. The haplogroups are consistent with the autosomal DNA of the Abusir mummies. Statistically speaking, your black Egypt hypothesis isn't looking good.

    Now if the Abusir mummies were more Negroid than modern Egyptians, that would be a strong argument for a black ancient Egypt, indicating that Egypt has been "white-washed" over the centuries, or Arab-washed, whatever. However, right now it looks very much like Egyptians have become more Negro over time.å

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    I don't owe you shxt and I haven't lost anything.
    Are you denying that you made a bet with me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    Ancient Egyptian and Niger Congo languages are all African languages in the broad sense ok?
    "Africa" is a social construct. It's like saying Swedish and Mandarin are Eurasian languages, which they are. Does that mean that Swedish is an Asian language and Mandarin a European language? Rhetorical question.

    You don't understand that the ancient Egyptian language wasn't developed by or even originated among Negroes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    But let me be real, German, Italic, and Greek, while all belonging broadly to Indo-Europeans, are all mutually unintelligible to one another, this statement of yours trying to use a broad macro-language family to connect people all as one people is retarded, end of story.
    Ya Allah, ya rabb!

    Indo-European languages are all part of the same language family. Egyptian, Or more specifically Afro-Asiatic, and Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan, are all different language families. The issue or requirement here isn't unintelligibility, but whether the languages are related or not. Surely you're not that dumb that you don't understand this, right? I mean WTF man, why are you even discussing anthropology if you don't understand the basics?

    Unbelievable! It's no wonder that you're arguing the ancient Egyptians were black if you don't grasp simple shit like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    Nordicists are totally delusional
    At least Nordicists understand that the Indo-European languages constitute a language family. Sure, they have a lot of misconceptions, but you're off the charts in delusional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    and for me to say AEs were black ancient NE African people is correct, your claim revolves around strawmaen arguments that you have made up, only your dumb ass sees Wees West Africans and Central Africans as the only authentic true Black people, thats not my position, but you use that position to not only deny ancient NE Africans were black, you use it to say modern NE Africans are not black.
    Does Egyptian actor Adel Imam look black to you?



    ^^ The woman right next to him, is Lebanese actress Nicole Saba. Obviously she has much less Negroid admixture than him, if any. But despite his Negroid admixture, he's genetically much closer to her than he is to you. And that was also true for the ancient Egyptians; they were even closer to her and me than Adel Imam is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    So you're claiming the ancient Egyptians then; why can't you stand for it that you do?
    Calling someone black is not claiming them, period. When did I ever claim them as my people? Stop putting your dumb strawmen on to me.

    I'm not saying the ancient Egyptians were Assyrians, but I'm definitely claiming them when I say they were basically Near Easterners with some minor Negroid admixture, just as for example, like modern Palestinians who are genetically a non-Arab, ex-Jewish population with around 5% Negroid admixture; they're under no circumstances Assyrians, but they're much closer to me and all other Assyrians and for that matter to Swedes and whatever European population, than they are to you and other blacks.
    Ancient Egyptians were Africans, their culture was African, their language was African, and the people who founded the civilization were African peoples. You can't back your claims so I don't care.

    That's what you're saying when you say the ancient Egyptians were black. What are you saying, that you're not black now? lol
    No thats your strawmen are your silly definition of what black is that you're putting on me, I am NOT you

    Yes you have Charlie, yes you have! Man up and take responsibility for your statements!
    I stand by my claims and I was never proven wrong.

    So where's the evidence? And why would the ancient Egyptians be a black people when their southern neighbors aren't even black? Not fully black anyway (mulatto populations aren't really black).
    There is no such thing as blackskinned "mulattoes, Nubians were not mulattoes, end of story, we don't even need to discuss this.

    It wasn't just three mummies; three mummies with reliable autosomal DNA, but there were lots of mummies with haplogroups. The haplogroups are consistent with the autosomal DNA of the Abusir mummies. Statistically speaking, your black Egypt hypothesis isn't looking good.
    aAutosomal DNA from 3 mummies from the second intermediate period from the North....again the NORTH don't represent the founders and originators of ancient Egyptian civilization who came from the south BTW.

    And make up your damn mind, on one hand you have repeatedly stated that haplogroups don't matter, now you flip flop conveniently when you think it suits you. Its a shame I'm even debating with an unlearned idiot who knows nothing about ancient Egyptian civilization.

    Now if the Abusir mummies were more Negroid than modern Egyptians, that would be a strong argument for a black ancient Egypt, indicating that Egypt has been "white-washed" over the centuries, or Arab-washed, whatever. However, right now it looks very much like Egyptians have become more Negro over time.å
    Again THREE mummies, and no one knows what their morphological affinities were. It was just three, piss poor sample size so its not even relevant.



    "Africa" is a social construct. It's like saying Swedish and Mandarin are Eurasian languages, which they are. Does that mean that Swedish is an Asian language and Mandarin a European language? Rhetorical question.
    No such thing as a Eurasian language, how the hell would Mandarin Chinese be "Eurasian" linguistically anyways, makes no damn sense, you keep making a bigger ass out of yourself with these lame comparisons. At any rate, southern Egyptians in the southwest desert share a lot of vocabulary with Cushitic, Nilotic, and Chadic ;languages, but NOOOOO, you and the rest of the idiots don't even study things like this, you take one look at a genomewide study on 3 mummies and try to make conclusions about a nearly 5000 year old civilization,

    You don't understand that the ancient Egyptian language wasn't developed by or even originated among Negroes.
    It has more ion common with languages spoken by Negroes than with Assyrian you idiot, it didn't originate in the Near East.



    Indo-European languages are all part of the same language family. Egyptian, Or more specifically Afro-Asiatic, and Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan, are all different language families. The issue or requirement here isn't unintelligibility, but whether the languages are related or not. Surely you're not that dumb that you don't understand this, right? I mean WTF man, why are you even discussing anthropology if you don't understand the basics?
    Chadic, Cushitic etc, are languages spoken by black people, plus AE language shares vocabulary with Nilotics, you don't even study papers on this, you make rudimenatry dumbclass on entire language families. No Swede can claim Greece as their's based on some dumbass "our languages both belong to Indo European" suggestion.
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post


    aAutosomal DNA from 3 mummies from the second intermediate period from the North....again the NORTH don't represent the founders and originators of ancient Egyptian civilization who came from the south BTW.
    So you think the founders of Egyptian civilization "came from the South"...as in far south of Egypt? Or just the modern consensus that the pharaonic culture originated in Southern/Upper Egypt and the one to unite Upper and Lower Egypt and got the dynastic period going was from Upper Egypt (ie Narmer)?

    How far South do you hypothesize the Ancient Egyptians came from?

    For instance Mota is from 2,500 BC Eithiopia so he was living when Egypt was in The Old Kingdom period. So are you thinking The Ancient Egyptians will be like Mota? I mean really, if we are to believe the Land of Punt was in Ethiopia or something and the Ancient Egyptians directly came from Punt then the people who created Egypt were very similar to Mota.

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    ^Land of Punt was appromixametly Eritrea,Djibouti/NW Somalia.Mota lived in the highlands where there is no frankincense trees not on the arid coastline.Land of Punt was clearly Cushitic

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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    So you're claiming the ancient Egyptians then; why can't you stand for it that you do? I'm not saying the ancient Egyptians were Assyrians, but I'm definitely claiming them when I say they were basically Near Easterners with some minor Negroid admixture, just as for example, like modern Palestinians who are genetically a non-Arab, ex-Jewish population with around 5% Negroid admixture; they're under no circumstances Assyrians, but they're much closer to me and all other Assyrians and for that matter to Swedes and whatever European population, than they are to you and other blacks.
    You know i kind of agree with you Elias, at least concerning Lower Egypt. It looks to me predynastic Lower Egypt was very culturally connected to the Neolithic and prehistoric Levant.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehis...pt#Lower_Egypt

    The Neolithic Levant was modeled in Laz 2016 as being 2/3rds Natufian and 1/3rd Anatolian farmer. More than likely Early Dynastic lower Egyptians will be almost identical racially speaking IMO.


    Now Upper Egypt I think will be a different ball park. It's possible Early Dyanstic Upper Egypt could have significant sub-saharan ancestry..IMO. Perhaps getting in the 20% range or so. We'll find out more in the coming years I guess. The pharaonic culture did originate in Upper Egypt though. It's also unlikely we'll just see this massive genetic shift crossing from Upper Egypt to Nubia. Just being reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Modern Greeks from.the mainland? Ohh no. They're closer to Sardinians
    What are you basing that on? Looking at the PCA they look closer to Greeks.

    "Mycenaeans can also be modelled as a mixture of Minoans and Bronze Age steppe populations, suggesting that, alternatively, ‘eastern’ ancestry arrived in both Crete and mainland Greece, followed by ~13–18% admixture with a ‘northern’ steppe population in mainland Greece only."

    What's your theory on how this ~13-18% admixture arrived in the general population?

    Do you think the Iron Age/Ancient Greeks were generally like modern Greeks, i.e. shifted away somewhat from these Mycenaean samples, or do you think the change happened later, i.e. in the early middle ages as a result of Slav migrations, for example?
    Last edited by Reason1234; 2019-05-20 at 23:01.

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