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Thread: New Study on Phenotypes of Nomadic Pastoralists and Sedentary farmers of the Sahel/Savannah confirms...34 days old

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    Default New Study on Phenotypes of Nomadic Pastoralists and Sedentary farmers of the Sahel/Savannah confirms...

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajpa.23845

    Objectives
    The Sahel/Savannah belt is a region where two sympatric human subsistence strategies—nomadic pastoralism and sedentary farming—have been coexisting for millennia. While earlier studies focused on estimating population differentiation and genetic structure of this ecologically remarkable region's inhabitants, less effort has been expended on understanding the morphological variation among local populations.

    Materials and methods
    To fill this gap, we used geometric morphometrics to analyze the facial features of three groups of pastoralists and three groups of sedentary farmers belonging to three language families (Niger‐Congo, Nilo‐Saharan, and Afro‐Asiatic) whose mitochondrial DNA sequences have been published previously.

    Results
    Our results show that pastoralists differ from farmers with several facial features. We also found that individuals who bear maternally inherited haplotypes of Eurasian ancestry do not significantly morphologically differ from individuals whose maternal ancestry is sub‐Saharan.

    Conclusions
    Our study follows up and builds upon population genetic and phylogeographic studies of Eurasian haplogroups in the Fulani pastoralists and sub‐Saharan haplogroups in the Arab pastoralists, as well as studies on the spread of lactase persistence mutations and other genetic markers. Our results suggest that recent gene flows across the Sahel/Savannah belt were not strong enough to erase a genetic structure established by Paleolithic foragers and further shaped by the adoption of agropastoral food‐producing strategies.
    Some quotes from the study:
    In this study, our goal was to determine whether the genetic differences between populations belonging to two sympatric foodproducing economies, which were identified by molecular genetic studies (Černý et al., 2007, 2011; Čížková et al., 2018; Triska et al., 2015), can also be found by morphometry. The main question was if
    the nomadic pastoralists coming from the north show, in comparison with sedentary farmers, morphological traits related to a drier climate, such as a narrower face and nose. Also, thanks to phylogeographic classifications of mtDNA haplotypes which links them to either sub-Saharan or Eurasian ancestry, we wanted to know whether individuals bearing Eurasian mtDNA show also facial differences from individuals who bear mtDNA of sub-Saharan ancestry. Positive answer to such question would suggest very recent admixtures of Eurasian and sub-Saharan gene pools formally divided by the Sahara. For these purposes, we used facial portraits depicting several peoples living in the
    Sahel region, which were collected during field research and mtDNA datasets published before. Thanks to this large and never published photographic dataset, we were able to evaluate the differences and similarities between nomadic pastoralists and sedentary farmers in both men and women and improve our understanding of the spread of food production economics in sub-Saharan Africa.
    "Morphological or anthropometric studies of African populations have reported a correlation between some metric variables and the climate (Hiernaux & Froment, 1976)."

    "Bizygomatic width tends to increase with air moisture and climate uniformity, while nose height tends to decrease in wetter regions. Hiernaux and Froment 1984 have also reported—in a paper describing 10 contemporary populations of the Niger bend, mainly in the north and south of Burkina Faso—that Sahelian men who live in areas where the annual rainfall is around 400 mm have a shorter and wider head and a longer face, and Sahelian women a narrower face, than southern populations living in areas with rainfall around 800 mm. Nose measurements follow the same pattern of differences in both sexes that is, Sahelians have a longer and narrower nose than populations in drier areas further south (Froment & Hiernaux, 1984)."
    "In this study, we have shown several aspects of the facial morphology of two sympatric populations living in the African Sahel belt. In comparison to farmers, pastoralists show traits related to a drier climate, such as a narrower face and nose, what can be related with desertification had not allowed further existence of the cattle keepers. At the same time, thanks to phylogeographic classifications of mtDNA haplotypes which links them to either sub-Saharan or Eurasian ancestry, we were able to show that individuals who bear mtDNA of Eurasian origin do not show any facial differences from individuals who bear mitochondria of sub-Saharan ancestry so that the migration must has been rather ancient. These and other results are interesting in the context of African past climatic changes, spread of pastoralism and farming, and migration patterns between the communities of different lifestyles all that within the dynamically changing environment of the Sahel belt."
    @El-Maestro @beyoku @Truthcentric @BlessedbyHorus @Itoli @Game Theory @pgbk87
    So here confirmation of the native African phenotype diversity that many of the so-called Afrocentric members on this board have been saying, but constantly dismissed in favor of “wandering caucazoids” bringing certain features to Africa.

    The results are loud and clear. I don’t want to see any of you in future threads trying to act all brand new and pretending like you never seen this study when we talk about the diverse features in Africa.
    @Kanun @EliasAlucard @Semitic Duwa @Ether @Reason1234 @NassBean @Nebro @Tsarcastic

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    Do you even understand what mtDNA is? Obviously they're not going to show any phenotype differences even though they have different mtDNA, just as two two half-siblings with different fathers are going to have different phenotypes despite having the same mtDNA. Here's a well kept secret for you n00bs: mtDNA has nothing to do with phenotype.
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    Quoted for truth:
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliasAlucard View Post
    Do you even understand what mtDNA is? Obviously they're not going to show any phenotype differences even though they have different mtDNA, just as two two half-siblings with different fathers are going to have different phenotypes despite having the same mtDNA. Here's a well kept secret for you n00bs: mtDNA has nothing to do with phenotype.
    Well, apparently this isn't so obvious to experts if this whole study was used in order to answer the question on whether eurasian mtDNA in some African populations affected phenotype.

    Also, thanks to phylogeographic classifications of mtDNA haplotypes which links them to either sub-Saharan or Eurasian ancestry, we wanted to know whether individuals bearing Eurasian mtDNA show also facial differences from individuals who bear mtDNA of sub-Saharan ancestry.
    Lets not try and back track on the many of the people on this forum who blame ANY Eurasian ancestry on phenotype differences in modern sub-saharan African populations. Let not ignore the obsession with applying an outside-African source for any Africans( Fulani being very popular of this) who don't portray stereotypical black features. We are in 2019 and still having discussions on this to this very day with people aggressively denying any physical diversity as if their very life depended on native Africans lacking diversity.

    The climate being a possible factor in facial features have been consistently mentioned by many of the so-called "Afrocentrics" on this board, and this study gives more confirmation of this theory. Anyone who familiar with the facial diversity in West Africa would assume this, because there are many ethic groups in West Africa who have these "un-african" features and who lack Eurasian admixture.

    Kanuri

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    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    Well, apparently this isn't so obvious to experts if this whole study was used in order to answer the question on whether eurasian mtDNA in some African populations affected phenotype.
    Obviously there are no phenotype differences today, among let's say, Eritreans who carry Eurasian mtDNA vis-à-vis Eritreans who carry something like L0 or whatever those Negro mtDNA lineage nomenclatures are categorized as.

    Look, there's no autosomal DNA in mtDNA and Y-DNA, so obviously haplogroups won't correlate with phenotypes.

    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    Lets not try and back track on the many of the people on this forum who blame ANY Eurasian ancestry on phenotype differences in modern sub-saharan African populations.
    Not "back tracking" anything here. You just don't understand this topic or what you're talking about. You're new to population genetics I assume?

    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    Let not ignore the obsession with applying an outside-African source for any Africans( Fulani being very popular of this) who don't portray stereotypical black features. We are in 2019 and still having discussions on this to this very day with people aggressively denying any physical diversity as if their very life depended on native Africans lacking diversity.
    I think you're delusional, but whatever. Somalis, Eritreans, Ethiopians and other Horners tend to have straight hair in many cases (not saying it's the norm, but such Horners do exist) and look much less like Bantus and more like mulattos, because that's what Horners are: a mixed race population of Caucasoids and Negroids. And it's pretty damn obvious too. Nothing "aggressive" in stating this fact.

    For years, @Aware_Dog and other Horner forum members were like, "it's just natural indigenous African diversity, and saying it's Caucasoid admixture is just Eurocentric OWD blah blah blah". Well, as it turned out in later genome-wide SNP studies and GEDmatch scores, Horners do indeed have a significant chunks of Middle Eastern admixture. Aware_Dog even challenged me to post my Interpretome results, and he was like expecting me to show Horner admixture, but to his disappointment I had none. Then after all the genetics studies proved me and other "Cockasoids" right (and especially when Neanderthal admixture was detected among Horners, lol, that was like total game over man), he became like Quiet_Dog and went AWOL and Y-DNA autism on some boring shitty blog, like most of these genetics faggots, because you know, when the autosomal DNA isn't what you wished it to be, I guess your ethnic group's Y-DNA lineages is all that's interesting at that point.

    At this point I couldn't care less about Y-DNA. That shit is so 2009. Who cares now, there's no novelty anymore in haplogroups.

    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    The climate being a possible factor in facial features have been consistently mentioned by many of the so-called "Afrocentrics" on this board, and this study gives more confirmation of this theory. Anyone who familiar with the facial diversity in West Africa would assume this, because there are many ethic groups in West Africa who have these "un-african" features and who lack Eurasian admixture.
    Whatever. Horners really do have Caucasoid admixture, and the simplest explanation per Occam's razor is that their different facial features and other traits like straight hair, come from their Middle Eastern admixture.

    The more relevant question here is why you black folks are so allergic to acknowledging this fact? Like why so much denial about the obvious? You think it's an insult to have "Arab blood" or what's the deal here? I never understood this denial among you guys. It's ridiculous. Just accept who you are.
    Last edited by EliasAlucard; 2019-05-13 at 20:49.
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajpa.23845



    Some quotes from the study:






    @El-Maestro @beyoku @Truthcentric @BlessedbyHorus @Itoli @Game Theory @pgbk87
    So here confirmation of the native African phenotype diversity that many of the so-called Afrocentric members on this board have been saying, but constantly dismissed in favor of “wandering caucazoids” bringing certain features to Africa.

    The results are loud and clear. I don’t want to see any of you in future threads trying to act all brand new and pretending like you never seen this study when we talk about the diverse features in Africa.
    @Kanun @EliasAlucard @Semitic Duwa @Ether @Reason1234 @NassBean @Nebro @Tsarcastic
    I have said this for years, the people who attribute their features to "Caucasoids" have never shown proof of what those people look like and instead look to MODERN populations which would be inaccurate


    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarcastic View Post
    That said, I have complete respect for blacks that are actually about shit and don't blame white folk on the daily (preferably ever---e.g., Jesse Lee Peterson, or even formerly leftist aframs like Candace Owens

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    I have said this for years, the people who attribute their features to "Caucasoids" have never shown proof of what those people look like and instead look to MODERN populations which would be inaccurate
    Yeah but you're also the king of delusional.

    So Charlie, how come Horners have Neanderthal admixture? Could you please explain that for us "aggressive" "Cockasoids"?
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    Quoted for truth:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaron View Post
    Anatolian Urhemait supporters are mostly butthurt Meds.
    For the lulz:
    Quote Originally Posted by drgs View Post
    Poland is a misunderstanding. It is a country which lies on the frontier between western and slavic world, and which combines elements of both.
    In fact, they are not even the Europeans in strict sense, meaning European as in bearing the responsibility and understanding of European interests. Poland has always been an subordinate country, on one side sucking German dick, on the other side -- Russian one, some kind of "novice" europeans, who are full of inferiority complexes, hysteria and obsessity neuroses. This is also true for all Baltic countries

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    Wow.... Good post man. Tbh I thought us "Afrocentrics" were 100% debunked on "narrow features" being associated with environmental adaptation. And those type of phenotypes being descendants of more North African type ancestry like seen with Horners and even Tutsis further south who's features can not be due to the environment. But... This study makes it more complicated and backs earlier "Afrocentric" views like the OP states. I especially like this part:
    "In this study, we have shown several aspects of the facial morphology of two sympatric populations living in the African Sahel belt. In comparison to farmers, pastoralists show traits related to a drier climate, such as a narrower face and nose, what can be related with desertification had not allowed further existence of the cattle keepers."
    ^^That bolded right there is what "Afrocentrics" BEEN were saying about intra-African diversity.



    ^^Now one can argue that the Fulanis of the Sahel narrow facial features can be due to North African ancestry. But... How much did the North African ancestry play a part on their phenotype vs drier climate? Plus how did these aboriginal North Africans even look? Then we have the Wolof who share similar features. And also people from Niger and Chad. Again, narrow features in certain parts of Africa being due to dry climate adaption doesn't seem too far fetched. Of course there are those which are mostly due to admixture like Horners and the Tutsi. Good study op.

    Hope I made sense btw.

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    I wouldn't rule out the possibility that aboriginal North African ancestry (not Eurasian ancestry) has sometime to do with "elongated" features in sub-Sahara. But why would aboriginal North Africans evolve more elongated features to begin with if not due to climate? Different facial features being the product of adaptation to different environments shouldn't be mutually exclusive with admixture also having an effect.
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    Wow, a switch to Horners on a topic about phenotype variation in the Sahel.

    *back-tracking*

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    Anyways, narrow noses isn't even some rare specialty in SSA outside the Horn. You have pitch Black Nilotics with the most narrowest noses and I've seen this first hand.

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