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Thread: What were the African ancestors of Aframs doing during the time of Ancient Egypt?28 days old

  1. #21
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    I find the current Eurocentric attitude towards skeletal analysis rather hypocritical when you consider their history. They were more than happy to cite cranial studies on ancient Egyptians when those studies showed them to look different from certain West African or Bantu populations. But when they’re reminded that ancient “Nubian” and other dark-skinned northern Africans appeared closest of all to certain AE, they dismiss said research out of hand and claim that aDNA has all the answers. Skeletal analysis is by no means flawless, but their hypocrisy on it’s reliability goes to show you thar racists have no scruples or integrity whatsoever.
    Knowledge is consciousness of reality. Reality is the sum of the laws that govern nature and of the causes from which they flow.
    ---Ancient Egyptian proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Maestro View Post
    So now that you know that the Africans in question weren't in the areas you believe they were, aren't you gonna take a guess as to where they were? You've seen the Shum laka Pre-Abstract... Bantus weren't even in the bantu homeland a couple hundred years prior to when they supposedly expanded from there. You not gonna take a crack at it?
    So your ancestors weren't in tropical West Africa in the 1st millenium AD or before then?

    “The early food-producing peoples of the West African forest region (the so-called Guinea Neolithic) occupied rock shelters and caves as well as open-air sites. Examples of rock shelters are Yengema, Kamabai and Yagal, all in Sierra Leone; Kakimbon, Blande and Monkey Caves in Guinea; Bosumpra in Ghana; and Iwo Eleru and Ukpa in Nigeria.

    At Kamabai the Neolithic [Stone Age] levels span a period from 2500 BC to 340 AD. In the north central region of Upper Volta (Burkina Faso), the same type of [Stone Age] industry has been dated to between 1650 BC and 1000 AD.”

    As for DNA:

    Last edited by Reason1234; 2019-05-19 at 17:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The American View Post
    Africans were doing the same thing in Africa circa the First Dynasty of Egypt (and before) that Europeans were doing in Europe? i.e. living the good life as a lot of pastoralists?!
    For starters I didn't say "circa the First Dynasty of Egypt (and before)" I said 'during the time of Ancient Egypt'.

    See my comment above.

    Unesco general history of africa, vol.2:

    "One of the main achievements of recent research in sub-Saharan African archaeology is the realization that peoples at different stages of technological development were living contemporaneously in different parts of Africa. There was no single end to the stone age, agricultural practices were adopted at different times and many of the communities with whom we will be concerned in the next few chapters were still living by hunting and food-gathering and using a stone age technology right up to the end of the first millennium AD." (p.533)

    Encyclopedia Britannica:

    "In Egypt, civilization first reached its full development c. 3000 BCE, but though it passed through Copper and Bronze ages and introduced copper tools to the Sudan, there is no evidence of either of these ages in the rest of Africa, where a transition from the Stone Age, generally still Mesolithic in type, directly to the Iron Age took place gradually during the last two millennia and in a few places did not take place until the middle of the 20th century. In some localities, an intermediate state, when Neolithic forms were used, occurred (e.g., Democratic Republic of the Congo and Ghana), but elsewhere (e.g., Kenya) polished-stone celts, or axes, seem so rare that they may have been comparatively late imports from the north."

    https://www.britannica.com/event/Stone-Age/Africa
    Last edited by Reason1234; 2019-05-19 at 18:36.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Elizabeth~ View Post
    I see you as a retard for believing in the "Russian collusion" and the alleged pee tape. You never apologized for insulting Trump in the Trump thread. And I don't like being insulted.

    I wonder why you and your African relatives are so into pee, and ass licking.





    Funny how you posted this when this African technique was also used by the Ancient Egyptians.

    The study of rock pictures evoking the milking of cows or the vaginal insufflation technique – used by the ancient Egyptians and currently still practised in many parts of Africa to induce lactation – showed that both techniques are linked to the dissemination of cattle by the Afrasian-speaking populations in the northern half of Africa, by Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan speaking people in its southern half.
    https://www.academia.edu/25778012/20...ected_version_

    Thanks to @NonFingo who pointed this out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    So do the Natufians found in the Raqefet Cave, are they craniofacially distinct from other Natufian sample sets? Or my guess is you just don't know. The Natufians for instance in Brace et al 2005 were almost West African like craniometrically.

    Honestly, I don't expect much diversity in Natufians. We'll see in the Northern edges of Natufian culture probably some Anatolian farmer ancestry (and it's now known that 6,000 BC Anatolian farmers are 80-90% genetically continuous with Mesolithic Anatolians from 13,000 BC around the time of the Natufians).

    So overall, yeah I reject the craniofacial stuff, especially on samples over 10k old. All sorts of weird things happen in craniofacial science when we go that far back. Right now the only samples we have full genomes on of the Natufians are clustering in the Eurasian cluster more than most Modern North Africans and most Bedouins.

    Even Kostenki 14, a pure Western Crown Eurasian who's ancestry is highest in modern Scandinavians...even he has "pseudo Negroid morophological traits". So yeah, I'll believe in the genetically 'African" Natufians when actual data is presented.
    The last time we talked about Natufian affinities, I posted this. Relevant quote:

    Figure 68.3 Natufian skulls from Eynan (left) and Hayonim cave (right); frontal view. Large morphological variations between sites exist in this population.
    The one from Hayonim is negroid, the one from Eynan isn't. It seems common sense that if we want to know the genetics of the individual from Hayonim, we would sample the one from Hayonim. We wouldn't sample the one from Eynan to make premature claims about the other one. I'm pretty sure that's how they do it everywhere else (e.g. no one would try to settle the dispute about Kennewick Man using a random ancient American as a proxy).
    Last edited by NonFingo; 2019-05-19 at 18:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    Funny how you posted this when this African technique was also used by the Ancient Egyptians.


    https://www.academia.edu/25778012/20...ected_version_

    Thanks to @NonFingo who pointed this out.
    Cow urine is also used in India and Myanmar.

    I wonder where this dumb practice was used first. Probably India.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomutra

    Gomutra or gaumutra (Sanskrit: गोमूत्र gomūtra; cow urine) is urine from cows used for therapeutic purposes in ancient Ayurvedic medicine. Gaumutra is a component of the mixture called Panchagavya that is used for purification in Vastu Shastra.[1][2] Urine of a pregnant cow is considered special; it is claimed to contain special hormones and minerals.[1]

    Cow urine is also used in folk medicine in Myanmar and Nigeria.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayurveda#History

    According to modern Ayurvedic sources, the origins of Ayurveda have been traced to around 6,000 BCE[106][107][108] when they originated as an oral tradition.[dubious – discuss] Some of the concepts of Ayurveda have existed since the times of Indus Valley Civilization.[109][110] The first recorded forms of Ayurveda as medical texts evolved from the Vedas.[111][108] Ayurveda is a discipline of the upaveda or "auxiliary knowledge" in Vedic tradition. The origins of Ayurveda are also found in Atharvaveda,[112] which contains 114 hymns and incantations described as magical cures for disease. There are various legendary accounts of the origin of Ayurveda, e.g. that it was received by Dhanvantari (or Divodasa) from Brahma.[8][32][113] Tradition also holds that the writings of Ayurveda were influenced by a lost text by the sage Agnivesa.[114]

    Ayurveda is one of the few systems of medicine developed in ancient times that is still widely practiced in modern times.[3] As such, it is open to the criticism that its conceptual basis is obsolete and that its contemporary practitioners have not taken account of the developments of modern medicine.[115][116] Responses to this situation led to an impassioned debate in India during the early decades of the twentieth century, between proponents of unchanging tradition (śuddha "pure" ayurveda) and those who thought ayurveda should modernise and syncretize (aśuddha "impure, tainted" ayurveda).[117][118][119] The political debate about the place of ayurveda in contemporary India has continued to the present (2015), both in the public arena and in government.[120] Debate about the place of Ayurvedic medicine in the contemporary internationalized world also continues today (2015).[121][122]
    Last edited by ~Elizabeth~; 2019-05-19 at 18:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    Funny how you posted this when this African technique was also used by the Ancient Egyptians.


    https://www.academia.edu/25778012/20...ected_version_

    Thanks to @NonFingo who pointed this out.

    These clowns don't realize that the Ancient Egyptians did A LOT of stuff these guys would consider "disgusting", "savage" or worse... "African." Cow urine is probably how they and the Nubians dyed their hair blonde.

    A lot of these folks THOSE Euronuts and Afronuts don't realize Ancient Egyptian culture was taboo in general and if we were to time travel and live as an average Egyptian we would lose our mind due to the overall strangeness of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlessedbyHorus View Post
    These clowns don't realize that the Ancient Egyptians did A LOT of stuff these guys would consider "disgusting", "savage" or worse... "African." Cow urine is probably how they and the Nubians dyed their hair blonde.

    A lot of these folks THOSE Euronuts and Afronuts don't realize Ancient Egyptian culture was taboo in general and if we were to time travel and live as an average Egyptian we would lose our mind due to the overall strangeness of it.
    In a course on Egyptian history that I took, our prof mentioned that the reason people think Ramses II was a redhead is because of henna being found in his hair (therefore implying he wanted to hide his aging). Ironically, I always felt that this would have been a practice picked up from the Kushites, since they are portrayed with red- and blond-dyed hair way more often than native Egyptians themselves.
    Knowledge is consciousness of reality. Reality is the sum of the laws that govern nature and of the causes from which they flow.
    ---Ancient Egyptian proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason1234 View Post
    So your ancestors weren't in tropical West Africa in the 1st millenium AD or before then?

    “The early food-producing peoples of the West African forest region (the so-called Guinea Neolithic) occupied rock shelters and caves as well as open-air sites. Examples of rock shelters are Yengema, Kamabai and Yagal, all in Sierra Leone; Kakimbon, Blande and Monkey Caves in Guinea; Bosumpra in Ghana; and Iwo Eleru and Ukpa in Nigeria.

    At Kamabai the Neolithic [Stone Age] levels span a period from 2500 BC to 340 AD. In the north central region of Upper Volta (Burkina Faso), the same type of [Stone Age] industry has been dated to between 1650 BC and 1000 AD.”

    As for DNA:

    Some of our ancestors were, but the majority of our ancestors were further North. "tropical" west Africa was a swamp back then, and the majority of the settlements at the time were only seasonal as a result. We're proud of all our ancestors though, but you have to wonder if you can say the same seeing your not so subtle inferiority complex.
    Last edited by Itoli; 2019-05-19 at 19:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthcentric View Post
    I find the current Eurocentric attitude towards skeletal analysis rather hypocritical when you consider their history. They were more than happy to cite cranial studies on ancient Egyptians when those studies showed them to look different from certain West African or Bantu populations. But when they’re reminded that ancient “Nubian” and other dark-skinned northern Africans appeared closest of all to certain AE, they dismiss said research out of hand and claim that aDNA has all the answers. Skeletal analysis is by no means flawless, but their hypocrisy on it’s reliability goes to show you thar racists have no scruples or integrity whatsoever.
    Kind of a straw-man. I said the science or value of craniofacial studies gets shoddier as we go back in time. Natufians are 12,000 BC....Dynastic Egypt starts around 3,000 BC.

    Craniofacially speaking, Nubians are only closest to predynastic Upper Egyptians. They aren't closest to Dynastic Egyptians as a whole much less Early Dynastic Lower Egyptians where the great Pyramids of Giza were built.

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