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Thread: MXLinux vs Ubuntu/Mint43 days old

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Sorry, I think you misunderstand. I was reffering to Ubuntu etc... as spaghetti code to make it user to use. Slackware is superfast because it eschews all that 'userfriendly' handholding GUI bloat.

    I also don't understand why in scientific work it is not possible to make use of multi-cores as it seems to me it is the way the software is coded that dictates that.


    Theoretically speaking let's say a new RISC multicore processor came out to rival AMD and Intel it is up to softwareapplication developers to take advantage of the new architecture to use the new cores -- to enable the full multi-threading techniques and that might even go down to the system level developer kernel level at first. The current multi-core CISC CPUs in the Linux kernel definitely have the support already so it is up to the software application developers.

    As far as CISC processors in servers I don't quite understand what you are saying. I think you are probably using a a desktop processor rather than something like a Xeon or Opteron.

    10-20% really ? I must mean Moore's law is focusing on multiple cores now etc..
    In case of arithmetic and logical applications it is not always possible to utilise multithreading. With good design it is possible to some extent though.

    For example new CPU's in the i7 series has only a little difference to old i4700:

    CPU Single Thread Rating

    Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz 2,817
    Intel Core i7-4770K @ 3.50GHz 2,250
    PassMark Software © 2008-2019

    I bought my i4770K already 4 years ago and it was already old at that time.

    AMD Ryzen, said to be best value for money, is at the same price even worse:

    Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz 2,817
    AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,192
    PassMark Software © 2008-2019

    Actually Ryzen 2700X (rel. Aug. 2018) is worse than in Q2 2013 released 4770K! So, where is the advance on the consumer segment? The competition on the consumer segment has led to increased parallel performance due to smaller power dissipation of chips, but a brutal CPU power is still much same as 6 years ago.
    Last edited by Lemminkäinen; 2019-06-10 at 13:08.
    Blog: http://terheninenmaa.blogspot.fi/, with essence "Believe me, or I'll nuke you".

    H39 - Thracia 1650 BC, Hungary 5000 BC
    I1 - Transdanubia 5000 BC

    Three simple facts about Finns:
    1. Baltic Finnic languages (including Finnish) never came from the Volga basin along with ancestors of present-day Finns.
    2. Finnish I1 (around 30% of all Finns) has Germanic roots from the late Bronze Age or the early Iron Age.
    3. As to the Finnish prehistory we have no evidences about any Iron Age (or later) east-to-west migration, but many unquestionable evidences about west-to-east migrations.

    Väinämöinen - R1a
    Lemminkäinen - I1
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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    In case of arithmetic and logical applications it is not always possible to utilise multithreading. With good design it is possible to some extent though.

    For example new CPU's in the i7 series has only a little difference to old i4700:

    CPU Single Thread Rating

    Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz 2,817
    Intel Core i7-4770K @ 3.50GHz 2,250
    PassMark Software © 2008-2019

    I bought my i4770K already 4 years ago and it was already old at that time.

    AMD Ryzen, said to be best value for money, is at the same price even worse:

    Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz 2,817
    AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 2,192
    PassMark Software © 2008-2019

    Actually Ryzen 2700X (rel. Aug. 2018) is worse than in Q2 2013 released 4770K! So, where is the advance on the consumer segment? The competition on the consumer segment has led to increased parallel performance due to smaller power dissipation of chips, but a brutal CPU power is still much same as 6 years ago.
    ok, back on topic :


    "I am inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says, not really.” -- James Watson (founding father of modern genetics).


    "Give me a lever long enough to stand on I can lift the world"--Archimedes (if you don't understand the not literal meaning of that comment then you are innumerate most likely)

  4. #13
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    Few words about "spaghetti code", because I believe that very few here understand why structural code is supposed to be better. It is not about code efficiency. Actually structural code can be less efficiency and waste more computer resources than "spaghetti code". Structural coding was developed only to share human resources and to reach better productivity of human resources in two layers. First you can reuse same code pieces and you can plan and design bigger functionalities. But still every piece of code is less or more "spaghetti". So the idea about better efficiency of structural design is not true. End user, as me regarding Linux, doesn't see how structural the code is. End user only needs functionality and services. All you need is that the community behind produces all you need, including software libraries, keeps the system up-to-date and it is reliable. Structurality, although important, is in everyday use pretty much a marketing term.
    Last edited by Lemminkäinen; 2019-06-12 at 11:11.
    Blog: http://terheninenmaa.blogspot.fi/, with essence "Believe me, or I'll nuke you".

    H39 - Thracia 1650 BC, Hungary 5000 BC
    I1 - Transdanubia 5000 BC

    Three simple facts about Finns:
    1. Baltic Finnic languages (including Finnish) never came from the Volga basin along with ancestors of present-day Finns.
    2. Finnish I1 (around 30% of all Finns) has Germanic roots from the late Bronze Age or the early Iron Age.
    3. As to the Finnish prehistory we have no evidences about any Iron Age (or later) east-to-west migration, but many unquestionable evidences about west-to-east migrations.

    Väinämöinen - R1a
    Lemminkäinen - I1
    Joukahainen - N

  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    Few words about "spaghetti code", because I believe that very few here understand why structural code is supposed to be better. It is not about code efficiency. Actually structural code can be less efficiency and waste more computer resources than "spaghetti code". Structural coding was developed only to share human resources and to reach better productivity of human resources in two layers. First you can reuse same code pieces and you can plan and design bigger functionalities. But still every piece of code is less or more "spaghetti". So the idea about better efficiency of structural design is not true. End user, as me regarding Linux, doesn't see how structural the code is. End user only needs functionality and services. All you need is that the community behind produces all you need, including software libraries, keeps the system up-to-date and it is reliable. Structurality, although important, is in everyday use pretty much a marketing term.
    Spaghetti code is a real thing. In any software project there is going to be elite rock star coders and regular coders. The elite rock start coders are more likely to be working at the kernel level , in Linux, and all the userfriendly handholding stuff is likely to be done by mere hobbyists/enthusiasts. Slackware has non of the handholding crap and it runs with the KDE desktop, by default, yet it is hyperfast. I don't recommend using it right now , though, because the last release was in 2016.

    It is not so much structural code as it is hobbyist non-elite rockstar coders creating spaghetti code to make it easier to use for n00bs like Ubuntu.
    "I am inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says, not really.” -- James Watson (founding father of modern genetics).


    "Give me a lever long enough to stand on I can lift the world"--Archimedes (if you don't understand the not literal meaning of that comment then you are innumerate most likely)

  6. #15
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    I am an older man and started with early IBM machines at the time when computer was basically a clean hardware and my job was to keep it alive by a standalone code. Operating systems were only a bunch of source libraries, like i/o, network and arithmetic routines. Programmers work was to modify and link these with their own code. Your day started by loading IPL (initial program loader), booting IBM, but there was no OS following it. So without coders the computer was only a stupid box of IC's and transistors . Programming languages were assembler, fortran, cobol and pl1, but you needed to understand also machine code. What actually Bill Gates did was putting all this code together into a new invention, PC. What Linus Torvalds basically did was a new design with new memory addressing system. Today systems are much more complex, but at the same time the basis is same. People try to give a picture that somewhere lives geniuses. In reality everything lies on history and every day everyone knows less about the whole.
    Blog: http://terheninenmaa.blogspot.fi/, with essence "Believe me, or I'll nuke you".

    H39 - Thracia 1650 BC, Hungary 5000 BC
    I1 - Transdanubia 5000 BC

    Three simple facts about Finns:
    1. Baltic Finnic languages (including Finnish) never came from the Volga basin along with ancestors of present-day Finns.
    2. Finnish I1 (around 30% of all Finns) has Germanic roots from the late Bronze Age or the early Iron Age.
    3. As to the Finnish prehistory we have no evidences about any Iron Age (or later) east-to-west migration, but many unquestionable evidences about west-to-east migrations.

    Väinämöinen - R1a
    Lemminkäinen - I1
    Joukahainen - N

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemminkäinen View Post
    I am an older man and started with early IBM machines at the time when computer was basically a clean hardware and my job was to keep it alive by a standalone code. Operating systems were only a bunch of source libraries, like i/o, network and arithmetic routines. Programmers work was to modify and link these with their own code. Your day started by loading IPL (initial program loader), booting IBM, but there was no OS following it. So without coders the computer was only a stupid box of IC's and transistors . Programming languages were assembler, fortran, cobol and pl1, but you needed to understand also machine code. What actually Bill Gates did was putting all this code together into a new invention, PC. What Linus Torvalds basically did was a new design with new memory addressing system. Today systems are much more complex, but at the same time the basis is same. People try to give a picture that somewhere lives geniuses. In reality everything lies on history and every day everyone knows less about the whole.
    Some are geniuses but it is not about genius per se as much as skill that makes a rockstart coder. For instance, a regular coder just treats it as their job as a boring monday through friday thing where a rockstar coder has a side project he keeps working on during the weekend making him more skilled over time : it accrues. Also, Linux Torvalds basically just ripped of Unix with his idea for Linux :


    "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never have happened." -- Linus Torvalds

    A BSD was not around then because of a lawsuit from AT&T.

    BTW, I switch from MXLinux to Debian Stretch. You can do everything with Debian Stretch that you can in MXLinux but MXLinux is like a Gateway more n00b distro into the Debian world that stands between Ubuntu and Debian.

    P.S. I assure you Patrick Volkerding understands every nook and cranny of the OS he produces called Slackware.
    Last edited by DracoSentien; 2019-06-15 at 02:41.
    "I am inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says, not really.” -- James Watson (founding father of modern genetics).


    "Give me a lever long enough to stand on I can lift the world"--Archimedes (if you don't understand the not literal meaning of that comment then you are innumerate most likely)

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to DracoSentien For This Useful Post:

    Lemminkäinen (2019-06-16)

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    Some are geniuses but it is not about genius per se as much as skill that makes a rockstart coder. For instance, a regular coder just treats it as their job as a boring monday through friday thing where a rockstar coder has a side project he keeps working on during the weekend making him more skilled over time : it accrues. Also, Linux Torvalds basically just ripped of Unix with his idea for Linux :


    "If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never have happened." -- Linus Torvalds

    A BSD was not around then because of a lawsuit from AT&T.

    BTW, I switch from MXLinux to Debian Stretch. You can do everything with Debian Stretch that you can in MXLinux but MXLinux is like a Gateway more n00b distro into the Debian world that stands between Ubuntu and Debian.

    P.S. I assure you Patrick Volkerding understands every nook and cranny of the OS he produces called Slackware.
    I made programs on 5 different platforms, IBM, Burroughs, Datapoint - kind of early PC, Hewlet Packard non-Unix and Unix. Torvalds copied RISC Unix to CISC platform, but it is not important how we name internal or external commands ( IBM/MS, many others vs. Unix/Linux). The platform defines how you execute code, i.e. memory addressing, micro code, instruction base. There was many commercial operating systems before Unix, all better than IBM, and universities used them to learn how to build Unix.

    Definitely Linus Torvalds was not a super man, but another thing is that sometimes you hit the market niche. In Linus' days social networking was rather new and he had a benefit of using it. Today everyone can take this advance and hitting another market niche needs something else. It is quite impossible to penetrate into market only by telling that we have created a super OS.

    Btw, I commented your term "spaghetti" code because originally it was a definition of programming code in opposition to structural code, not only bad code.
    Last edited by Lemminkäinen; 2019-06-16 at 10:08.
    Blog: http://terheninenmaa.blogspot.fi/, with essence "Believe me, or I'll nuke you".

    H39 - Thracia 1650 BC, Hungary 5000 BC
    I1 - Transdanubia 5000 BC

    Three simple facts about Finns:
    1. Baltic Finnic languages (including Finnish) never came from the Volga basin along with ancestors of present-day Finns.
    2. Finnish I1 (around 30% of all Finns) has Germanic roots from the late Bronze Age or the early Iron Age.
    3. As to the Finnish prehistory we have no evidences about any Iron Age (or later) east-to-west migration, but many unquestionable evidences about west-to-east migrations.

    Väinämöinen - R1a
    Lemminkäinen - I1
    Joukahainen - N

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