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Thread: In the ancient Egypt debate why are certain people ignoring archaeology, culture, etc34 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    Portuguese Mesolithic has a slight Negro tendency so why are you saying that's a joke when it doesn't suit what you like?
    Morphologically, not genetically. Dumbass.

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  3. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Morphologically, not genetically. Dumbass.
    has the Portuguese Mesolithic ever been sampled...dumbass, or is this another one of your "Arch Hades pedicts/expects) reasoning? I was speaking about morphology, you can't call morphologically affinities bogus just because they don't match genetic relationships. The genetics do NOT invalidate morphological affinities.
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

  4. #183
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    has the Portuguese Mesolithic ever been sampled...dumbass, or is this another one of your "Arch Hades pedicts/expects) reasoning? I was speaking about morphology, you can't call morphologically affinities bogus just because they don't match genetic relationships. The genetics do NOT invalidate morphological affinities
    Has that modern Somalian sample in Brace had it's genome tested? How do I know it's not a super d duper White Somalian sample set? You really want to play this game? In the aDNA rercord, there is no evidence of modern Somali like people living in Mesolithic Iberia. Period.

    The burden of proof is on you to provide aDNA evidence then ill be happy to believe in them.
    Last edited by Arch Hades; 2019-06-17 at 20:22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    You don't forget anything, lol
    That's because I'm still waiting for his acknowledgement that Cheddar Man is a poor example of “odd things happening in craniometrics”. It looked like he was gearing up to say that "SHG is still pure European, so Cheddar Man is still pure". But SHG has clear non-European ancestry as shown by the presence of SLC24A5 before the Neolithic. But he still won't admit there was Asian ancestry in Europe in pre-Neolithic times and that this ancestry made it to Cheddar Man and affected his phenotype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Modern Somalies clustering with Portuguese Mesolithic. That's a joke. Iberia was inhabited by Western Hunter Gatherers in the Mesolithic. Didn't you read the new Iberian paper?



    It is deviating further into the "Congo" (so called stereotypical Negroid people) than Somalies are. I can look at a PCA plot. That's not what the full genomic sequencing says at all. Natufians from Lazaridis 2016 deviate further into the Eurasian cluster than most Bedouins.



    No I'm not. I'm being honest. Remember how Taforalt was modeled as 66% Eurasian 33% Sub-Saharan African before? Now it is being modelled as 55% Eurasian 45% "Ancestral North African". 0% Sub-Saharan. So there is something sub-Saharan like regarding the ancestral North African component....but there is also something Eurasian like about it too. Like I said It is it's own distinct component but didn't seem to undergo the bottleneck Basal Eurasian did.

    So what do you think this means?
    The PCA are just ways to render the data visually. They don’t have the last word. The distance between Brace’s SSA sample and his Natufian sample is 14.66. This is far from close. There are three other samples whose distance to Natufians is in the same ballpark (prehistoric Eurasia, prehistoric Mediterranean and Algerian Neolithic have values in between 14.00 and 16.59). None of the samples are close to the Natufian sample, but the prehistoric Eurasian sample is closest.

    If you look at the Portugese sample in question, it comes from the Muge site. There is no genome-wide DNA from Muge (as far as I know), so how do you know there is something wrong with the morphometric data? Also, the PCA are just a way to represent the data. It doesn't mean Muge is necessarily super close to Africans.
    Last edited by NonFingo; 2019-06-17 at 21:07.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Has that modern Somalian sample in Brace had it's genome tested? How do I know it's not a super d duper White Somalian sample set? You really want to play this game? In the aDNA rercord, there is no evidence of modern Somali like people living in Mesolithic Iberia. Period.

    The burden of proof is on you to provide aDNA evidence then ill be happy to believe in them.
    You're on skates now and can't stand and make a sound position.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    That's because I'm still waiting for his acknowledgement that Cheddar Man is a poor example of “odd things happening in craniometrics”. It looked like he was gearing up to say that "SHG is still pure European, so Cheddar Man is still pure". But SHG has clear non-European ancestry as shown by the presence of SLC24A5 before the Neolithic. But he still won't admit there was Asian ancestry in Europe in pre-Neolithic times and that this ancestry made it to Cheddar Man and affected his phenotype.



    The PCA are just ways to render the data visually. They don’t have the last word. The distance between Brace’s SSA sample and his Natufian sample is 14.66. This is far from close. There are three other samples whose distance to Natufians is in the same ballpark (prehistoric Eurasia, prehistoric Mediterranean and Algerian Neolithic have values in between 14.00 and 16.59). None of the samples are close to the Natufian sample, but the prehistoric Eurasian sample is closest.

    If you look at the Portugese sample in question, it comes from the Muge site. There is no genome-wide DNA from Muge (as far as I know), so how do you know there is something wrong with the morphometric data? Also, the PCA are just a way to represent the data. It doesn't mean Muge is necessarily super close to Africans.
    To be fair, its been hypothesized that Natufians descend from Nubians, not from Brace's SSA samples, which would fit better with the data
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

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    You're on skates now and can't stand and make a sound position.
    My position is that genetically modern Somali like Mesolithic Iberian/'Portuguese' Foragers are as real as the Easter bunny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post

    Who wrote that? C. Coon?

    Are we really gonna bring out Coon to this debate/discussion? Racial Reality and Crimson Guard taught you well it seems.

    I wonder what Coon believed regarding Egypt?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    You're on skates now and can't stand and make a sound position.



    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    To be fair, its been hypothesized that Natufians descend from Nubians, not from Brace's SSA samples, which would fit better with the data
    I agree there is something there that is causing a dip in the Natufian-African distance values. But it’s just a dip in overall large distances to the Natufian sample.

    We see the same thing genetically. The Natufians are a distinctive population not easily modeled as any other population. That makes a lot of sense considering the phenotypical and archaeological diversity in the Levant in pre-Natufian times (Levantine Aurignacian, Ahmarian, Emiran, etc). I doubt Natufians in general were really close to Africans. Maybe some local samples resembled later Egyptians, but I don't see this being true for Natufians in general.

    Brace's Natufians (as well as Lazaridis' Natufians) seem to have been insular Levantine hunter gatherer, with some secondary affinities to Mediterranean samples due to Basal Eurasian, ANA, etc. That insular hunter gatherer was possibly the Levantine version of the ancestry that was widespread in the Middle East before Basal Eurasian. This ancestry is @Arch Hades worst nightmare because it will show West Eurasian hunter gatherer originally had no Basal Eurasian.

    Natufian morphological distance
    Late Prehistoric Eurasia14.00
    Niger-Congo14.66
    PrehistRecent NE Africa15.31
    Prehistoric Mediterranean16.59
    Algerian Neolithic17.60
    Last edited by NonFingo; 2019-06-18 at 04:23.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Menelik View Post
    Lets be honest you are by no means an expert on Egyptian artwork either ,so no need to tell me what reasearchers have concluded on when you have shown no proof or cited nothing of the such.Yea I agree with you on the nudity part although that was mostly with the kids.Leopard skin however was worn by other societies so thats what I mean by being universal.No need to elaborate on something so simple.We have no proof of it being elevated you want something done by ancient Egyptians and Africans it has to be just that.

    The neck collars examples is alright but it still stands the in the Americas how they had their own neck collars and yes they are very similar to the ones in Ancient Egypt like the ones all over the world.



    The neck collar is even called beaded.


    Spoiler: 










    like this massai women


    Of course your going to have similar articles of clothing throughout Africa but those things are to overreaching.
    Actually, the nudity was pretty wide spread. Servants were usually entirely nude and for a good part of Ancient Egyptian history the man wore only a simple loin cloth in the front with pretty much everything else exposed.




    As far as leopard skin in ancient egypt goes, what do you mean we don’t have proof? Pharaohs and certain high class priests wore leopard skin. Pharaohs are as high on the ladder as they come and priests are on top as far as civilian jobs go. If the highest rank in the kingdom wearing leopard fur aint enough evidence of it high status, I don’t know what else is. It still that way in many areas in Africa.

    Ramses in leopard fur


    The Emir of Katsina


    Also I should have worded it differently. I'm very aware of other beaded neck fashions in other places of the world. It the style of neck wear that is uniquely African that I have not seen elsewhere, and I've looked.

    The AE jewelry and clothes look nothing alike with what you posted :
    You didn’t notice how all the neck collars I posted are quite different from one another? One is fabric, the other two are beads and each have their own style. Due to globalization and the introduction of new materials, the way these collars are made have obviously evolved. At the same time, these people are in completely different parts of Africa( one east, one in south africa, one in central) so it expected there to be differences in the way that each ethnic group styles and makes it( that includes the ancient egyptians). While there are differences, there still something uniform about them( it goes around the collar bone and follow a unique color pattern) that makes it uniquely African.

    As far as similar ones






    Fabric, but note the ends of the neck collar.





    @Reason1234 Most of the neck wear you posted are made to wrap around the neck, like this:



    So it still aint it.
    Last edited by HabariTess; 2019-06-18 at 04:35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post
    Actually, the nudity was pretty wide spread. Servants were usually entirely nude and for a good part of Ancient Egyptian history the man wore only a simple loin cloth in the front with pretty much everything else exposed.

    Yea servants are going to be nude but cause they are slaves just like in the Greco-Roman sphere.Kids were the ones actually more nude.Loin cloth doesnt mean nude at all,its basically what you see on the Egyptian hieroglyphs them wearing white garments around their hips.

    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post





    As far as leopard skin in ancient egypt goes, what do you mean we don’t have proof? Pharaohs and certain high class priests wore leopard skin. Pharaohs are as high on the ladder as they come and priests are on top as far as civilian jobs go. If the highest rank in the kingdom wearing leopard fur aint enough evidence of it high status, I don’t know what else is. It still that way in many areas in Africa.

    Ramses in leopard fur


    The Emir of Katsina
    Yea but same thing all over the world since leopard skin was rare.
    Quote Originally Posted by HabariTess View Post


    Also I should have worded it differently. I'm very aware of other beaded neck fashions in other places of the world. It the style of neck wear that is uniquely African that I have not seen elsewhere, and I've looked.



    You didn’t notice how all the neck collars I posted are quite different from one another? One is fabric, the other two are beads and each have their own style. Due to globalization and the introduction of new materials, the way these collars are made have obviously evolved. At the same time, these people are in completely different parts of Africa( one east, one in south africa, one in central) so it expected there to be differences in the way that each ethnic group styles and makes it( that includes the ancient egyptians). While there are differences, there still something uniform about them( it goes around the collar bone and follow a unique color pattern) that makes it uniquely African.

    As far as similar ones






    Fabric, but note the ends of the neck collar.



    @Reason1234 Most of the neck wear you posted are made to wrap around the neck, like this:



    So it still aint it.
    Yea they have some similarities to the ones worn in Africa but also some of the ones around the world.
    Native American neck collar.


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