User Tag List

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 71

Thread: Paper on non-African ancestry in Ethiopians, July 201910 days old

  1. #61
    Established Member
    Junior Member Arch Hades's Avatar
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 23:07
    Join Date
    2012-02-28
    Posts
    1,647
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Y-DNA
    J2b2*
    mtDNA
    H1
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Metaethnos
    White American
    Ethnicity
    Greco-Mediterranean
    Phenotype
    Pompeii frescoe
    Politics
    I don't do politics
    Religion
    Panentheism
    Germany Japan Italy

    Default

    Going by your the plot you posted, are you saying that Mesolithic Nubians were more genetically akin to modern West Africans(Ghanaians)? I think you need to speak before you talk. Tooth traits do not determine how you look.
    That's certainly a possibility.


    Population of Nubia up to the 16th century BC


    "ABSTRACT The article presents anthropological characteristics (morphological features, paleodemography and paleopathology) of the population inhabiting Nubia from the end of the Upper Palaeolithictill the 16th century BC. The material basis for this work consisted of the collections of bones coming from the archaeological researches carried out in Nubia."

    "The Nubians were hardly a homogeneous population. Neither the climate nor the specific geographic conditions in the region they inhabited were conducive of such homogeneity. The population of Nubia was shaped by several migration waves coming from Northwest Africa and from Asia through Sinai and Yemen. All those population movements gained on intensity in the Neolithic, but they did not prevent repeated contacts of the people of Nubia with Southern Africa."


    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4fc...4cd2b3cab3.pdf


    Archeological data does mean something and you still have posted no evidence of the Nile Valley being populated by Eurasians, nor that Eursians replaced the indigenous Northeast Africans there.
    The 'Indigenous NE Africans' already had a huge Eurasian component.

    You've lost this debate, get over it. Delusional one. Everyone can see the data posted in this thread whom the Egyptians were. The Egyptians phenotypically/craniometrically are a clinal population between the the modern Horn and Levant.
    Last edited by Arch Hades; 2019-07-11 at 18:48.

  2. # ADS
    Advertisement bot
    Join Date
    2013-03-24
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    All threads
       
     

  3. #62
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist
    Last Online
    Today @ 00:27
    Join Date
    2010-01-07
    Posts
    5,157
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    E1b1a8*
    mtDNA
    L0a1a2
    Ethnicity
    "Black"
    Politics
    Praise the Sun
    Religion
    Sun Worship
    African Union(OAS) United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post

    No, wrong.
    All of those other Eurasian components (Iranian Neolithic/CHG, Anatolian neolithic) etc are evolved distinctively out of a mixture of Crown Eurasians whom settled west Eurasia and Basal Eurasians....just like 7/8ths of the Natufian component. So it's really just one big OOA Eurasian component. 7/8ths of the Natufian's ancestry belongs to the Eurasian genetic component.

    If we are talking about much later substructure like at the time of the late Epipaleolithic or Neolithic, then i'm sure North Africa will have it's substructure just like Eurasia does. I expect much of the Natufian component itself to be indigenous to Northern and NE Africa.
    What? You are quite unclear as to what you are exactly trying to say. Now you are going back 80-60kya. They are Eurasian: CHG, Anatolian and Iranian HG are all still distinct. Just like OTHER Eurasian components across the globe that ALSO descend from "Crown Eurasians". I swear you Europeans constantly overestimate your importance on the genetic world stage.

    The are differentiated from each other similarly to other African components and how some of them go back to a common ancestor yet are differentiated in and of themselves : Chadic, Senegambian, Niltoic, Eastern/Western Bantu etc.. Saying "They are all African". Says nothing about their distinctiveness. Moving on, if you expect much of Natufians components to be native to North Africa then what exactly are you arguing?

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to beyoku For This Useful Post:

    Arch Hades (2019-07-11), Truthcentric (2019-07-11)

  5. #63
    Established Member
    Archangel Game Theory's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2009-10-23
    Posts
    5,696
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    E1b1a7a
    mtDNA
    L4b2
    Race
    Sub-Saharan African
    Phenotype
    Sudanid
    Metaethnos
    American
    Ethnicity
    Afro-American
    Phenotype
    New World Black
    Politics
    Center-right
    Religion
    Church of Christ
    United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    That's certainly a possibility.


    Population of Nubia up to the 16th century BC


    "ABSTRACT The article presents anthropological characteristics (morphological features, paleodemography and paleopathology) of the population inhabiting Nubia from the end of the Upper Palaeolithictill the 16th century BC. The material basis for this work consisted of the collections of bones coming from the archaeological researches carried out in Nubia."

    "The Nubians were hardly a homogeneous population. Neither the climate nor the specific geographic conditions in the region they inhabited were conducive of such homogeneity. The population of Nubia was shaped by several migration waves coming from Northwest Africa and from Asia through Sinai and Yemen. All those population movements [B]gained on intensity in the Neolithic, but they did not prevent repeated contacts of the people of Nubia with Southern Africa.[/B]"


    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4fc...4cd2b3cab3.pdf
    There is no proof Nubian was populated nor wee mixed with Northwest Africans, nor people from the Sinai and Yemen, no such population movements can b e tracked archeologically, nor culturally.


    The 'Indigenous NE Africans' already had a huge Eurasian component.

    No they did not, again, where is the proof of such a people coming into NE Africa? Given their skeletal affinity indicating they are distinct from all others and cluster together and closer to Saharans and Upper Nile people how do you figure they already had a huge Eurasian component?

    You've lost this debate, get over it. Delusional one. Everyone can see the data posted in this thread whom the Egyptians were. The Egyptians phenotypically/craniometrically are a clinal population between the the modern Horn and Levant.
    I didn't lose anything, you're delusional one who says one thing, but then contradicts himself and says another like this:

    I expect much of the Natufian component itself to be indigenous to Northern and NE Africa.
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

  6. #64
    Established Member
    Junior Member Arch Hades's Avatar
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 23:07
    Join Date
    2012-02-28
    Posts
    1,647
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Y-DNA
    J2b2*
    mtDNA
    H1
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Metaethnos
    White American
    Ethnicity
    Greco-Mediterranean
    Phenotype
    Pompeii frescoe
    Politics
    I don't do politics
    Religion
    Panentheism
    Germany Japan Italy

    Default

    There is no proof Nubian was populated nor wee mixed with Northwest Africans, nor people from the Sinai and Yemen, no such population movements can b e tracked archeologically, nor culturally.
    So archaeology > anthropological remains now?

    Anyway, it's not the conclusion of the authors of the study.

    Please try to be objective charlie. And use your mind.

    Don't you think the craniometric PCA i showed from Froment shows great variation in Nubian sample sets? Some of them deviate all the way in to SSA cluster, some of them deviate closer to the Levant than some Egyptian samples do. They clearly were not a homogenous group.

  7. #65
    Established Member
    Junior Member Arch Hades's Avatar
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 23:07
    Join Date
    2012-02-28
    Posts
    1,647
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Y-DNA
    J2b2*
    mtDNA
    H1
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Metaethnos
    White American
    Ethnicity
    Greco-Mediterranean
    Phenotype
    Pompeii frescoe
    Politics
    I don't do politics
    Religion
    Panentheism
    Germany Japan Italy

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beyoku View Post
    What? You are quite unclear as to what you are exactly trying to say. Now you are going back 80-60kya. They are Eurasian: CHG, Anatolian and Iranian HG are all still distinct. Just like OTHER Eurasian components across the globe that ALSO descend from "Crown Eurasians". I swear you Europeans constantly overestimate your importance on the genetic world stage.

    The are differentiated from each other similarly to other African components and how some of them go back to a common ancestor yet are differentiated in and of themselves : Chadic, Senegambian, Niltoic, Eastern/Western Bantu etc.. Saying "They are all African". Says nothing about their distinctiveness.
    You said that I was lumping all of North Africa into an "Ancestral North African" genetic cluster, meanwhile i make specific distinctions between the various West Eurasian Neolithic clusters. Not quite...the West Eurasian Neolithic clusters all descend from a proto Eurasian ancestor that long predates them. So really, all those Anatolian Neolithics, Iranian Neolithics, hell even mesolithic WHGs and Ancient North Eurasians, etc. All descend from a Eurasian OOA bottleneck. So I was not being hypocritical. We do not have enough prehistoric samples from North Africa to yet understand how the modern North African genetic diversity came into existence. All we can say is that their deep phylogeny is mostly Eurasian and 'Ancestral North African'.


    Moving on, if you expect much of Natufians components to be native to North Africa then what exactly are you arguing?
    Just that it's phylogenetically much much more related to other Eurasian groups (like Iranian Neolithics or Anatolian Neolithics or whatever) than it is to Sub-Saharan groups. There is no question about that.

    Now I was willing to admit (because it seems to be the truth) that the Natufian component is not a fully Eurasian component, overwhelmingly but not fully. As Laz 2018 points out, it has about 1/8th of it's ancestry tracing to something that is much more 'AFrican' like genetically...the 'Ancestral North African' phylogeny is newly discovered and which is not well understood.

    Also, the crown Eurasian ancestry of the Natufians is related to that the crown Eurasians whom went west and populated Europe...not of East Asia or The Americas or Australia/South Asia.

    That's what West Eurasians are today. They descend from Crown Eurasians whom went West and settled the Middle East and Europe (haplogorup IJ for instance) as well as the Basal Eurasian element that later started penetrating deep into West Eurasia.

    The Crown Eurasians whom settled The Americas or Oceania were not effected by Basal Eurasian geneflow like The Western Crown Eurasians were. And modern West Eurasians are a mixture of the two groups.
    Last edited by Arch Hades; 2019-07-11 at 19:07.

  8. #66
    Established Member
    Archangel Game Theory's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2009-10-23
    Posts
    5,696
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    E1b1a7a
    mtDNA
    L4b2
    Race
    Sub-Saharan African
    Phenotype
    Sudanid
    Metaethnos
    American
    Ethnicity
    Afro-American
    Phenotype
    New World Black
    Politics
    Center-right
    Religion
    Church of Christ
    United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    You said that I was lumping all of North Africa into an "Ancestral North African" genetic cluster, meanwhile i make specific distinctions between the various West Eurasian Neolithic clusters. Not quite...the West Eurasian Neolithic clusters all descend from a proto Eurasian ancestor that long predates them. So really, all those Anatolian Neolithics, Iranian Neolithics, hell even mesolithic WHGs and Ancient North Eurasians, etc. All descend from a Eurasian OOA bottleneck. So I was not being hypocritical. We do not have enough prehistoric samples from North Africa to yet understand how the modern North African genetic diversity came into existence. All we can say is that their deep phylogeny is mostly Eurasian and 'Ancestral North African'.




    Just that it's phylogenetically much much more related to other Eurasian groups (like Iranian Neolithics or Anatolian Neolithics or whatever) than it is to Sub-Saharan groups. There is no question about that.

    Now I was willing to admit (because it seems to be the truth) that the Natufian component is not a fully Eurasian component, overwhelmingly but not fully. As Laz 2018 points out, it has about 1/8th of it's ancestry tracing to something that is much more 'AFrican' like genetically...the 'Ancestral North African' phylogeny is newly discovered and which is not well understood.

    Also, the crown Eurasian ancestry of the Natufians is related to that the crown Eurasians whom went west and populated Europe...not of East Asia or The Americas or Australia/South Asia.

    That's what West Eurasians are today. They descend from Crown Eurasians whom went West and settled the Middle East and Europe (haplogorup IJ for instance) as well as the Basal Eurasian element that later started penetrating deep into West Eurasia.

    The Crown Eurasians whom settled The Americas or Oceania were not effected by Basal Eurasian geneflow like The Western Crown Eurasians were. And modern West Eurasians are a mixture of the two groups.

    Being phylogenetically closer to Eurasians doesn't make something Eurasian or non-African. Where do you think the OOA bottlneck occured at? You guessed it, NE African most likely. All non Africans are a subset of Africans . NE African ancestry does NOT descend from "Crown Eurasians."
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

  9. #67
    Established Member
    Junior Member Arch Hades's Avatar
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 23:07
    Join Date
    2012-02-28
    Posts
    1,647
    Gender
    Age
    32
    Y-DNA
    J2b2*
    mtDNA
    H1
    Race
    Caucasoid
    Metaethnos
    White American
    Ethnicity
    Greco-Mediterranean
    Phenotype
    Pompeii frescoe
    Politics
    I don't do politics
    Religion
    Panentheism
    Germany Japan Italy

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Game Theory View Post
    Being phylogenetically closer to Eurasians doesn't make something Eurasian or non-African. Where do you think the OOA bottlneck occured at? You guessed it, NE African most likely. All non Africans are a subset of Africans . NE African ancestry does NOT descend from "Crown Eurasians."
    Well now we are just arguing about geographical migrations and distribution. At the moment this is a lot less clear, especially concerning North Africa's role and how North Africans formed.

    All I'll say is If Sub-Saharan East Africa has seen large scale geneflow from Eurasia within the last 5,000 years you believe North AFrica will have seen no back migration ever? I severely doubt it. I severely doubt my Haplogroup (IJK) arose in NE Africa, it arose in a man who was living on West Eurasian soil.

    Contemporary North African ancestry will indeed be partially and significantly descended from a Western Crown Eurasian source.

  10. #68
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist Meygaag's Avatar
    Last Online
    Yesterday @ 21:15
    Join Date
    2018-11-08
    Posts
    885
    Location
    Kingdom of Kerma
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    T-M184
    mtDNA
    R0a2
    Ethnicity
    Dir/Bedouin
    Ethiopia Djibouti Oman Sudan

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Well now we are just arguing about geographical migrations and distribution. At the moment this is a lot less clear, especially concerning North Africa's role and how North Africans formed.

    All I'll say is If Sub-Saharan East Africa has seen large scale geneflow from Eurasia within the last 5,000 years you believe North AFrica will have seen no back migration ever? I severely doubt it. I severely doubt my Haplogroup (IJK) arose in NE Africa, it arose in a man who was living on West Eurasian soil.

    Contemporary North African ancestry will indeed be partially and significantly descended from a Western Crown Eurasian source.
    6-7k years ago is the earliest wave for the Eurasian proto-cushitic speakers earliest migrations to the Horn.

  11. #69
    Established Member
    Archangel Game Theory's Avatar
    Last Online
    @
    Join Date
    2009-10-23
    Posts
    5,696
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    E1b1a7a
    mtDNA
    L4b2
    Race
    Sub-Saharan African
    Phenotype
    Sudanid
    Metaethnos
    American
    Ethnicity
    Afro-American
    Phenotype
    New World Black
    Politics
    Center-right
    Religion
    Church of Christ
    United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Well now we are just arguing about geographical migrations and distribution. At the moment this is a lot less clear, especially concerning North Africa's role and how North Africans formed.

    All I'll say is If Sub-Saharan East Africa has seen large scale geneflow from Eurasia within the last 5,000 years you believe North AFrica will have seen no back migration ever? I severely doubt it. I severely doubt my Haplogroup (IJK) arose in NE Africa, it arose in a man who was living on West Eurasian soil.

    Contemporary North African ancestry will indeed be partially and significantly descended from a Western Crown Eurasian source.
    With no aDNA from SSA in the Mesolithic and Late Pleistocene how can you make any conclusions about anything? Are assuming today's SSAs are like the Mesolithic ones? I never said there wasn't any back migration, I said there was NO population replacement and that Eurasians didn't populate an empty North Africa and Nile Valley. Learn to read.
    We Wuz Kerma Kangz delusion..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Meygaag View Post
    You @beyoku @HabariTess @Roseai are the ones claiming people that have nothing to do with them.I'm a Cushitic descendant of the Sudan and an heir to all it's civilizations while you descend from Ebola stricken negroes from the Congo forest that eat albinos in order to gain superpowers lmao

  12. #70
    Established Member
    Molecular Biologist
    Last Online
    Today @ 00:27
    Join Date
    2010-01-07
    Posts
    5,157
    Gender
    Y-DNA
    E1b1a8*
    mtDNA
    L0a1a2
    Ethnicity
    "Black"
    Politics
    Praise the Sun
    Religion
    Sun Worship
    African Union(OAS) United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    Just that it's phylogenetically much much more related to other Eurasian groups (like Iranian Neolithics or Anatolian Neolithics or whatever) than it is to Sub-Saharan groups. There is no question about that.
    This is the thing though, considering the substructure we have on the continent that almost goes without saying. "Relationship to Sub Saharan Africans" is constantly used as some type of rule stick or "Troll Card" when speaking on Africa genomic variability. Its also stupid....about as dumb as someone constancy emphasizing certain Africans genetic distance from Eurasians when compared to Pygmies and Khoisan.......It would be like me emphasizing that Natufians or other SW Asians aint closely related to "REAL Eurasians" like Paupans, Japanese or Amerindians. What would exactly be the point...and why would I expect them to be related to them in the first place?

    This is what I want you to clarify on record:
    Basically we have ANA. What you are telling me is you dont expect a Central Saharan or Eastern Saharan genetic isolate equivalent to ANA? Therefore you dont expect typically assumed Western Eurasian ancestry in North East Africa to be absorbed in this component, similar how ANA was resolved from Ancient Maghrebi autosomes. Or maybe you think MOTA/Hadza IS the the North East African equivalent of ANA.....call it "Ancestral North East African." OR.......maybe its that Natufian component in and of itself?

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to beyoku For This Useful Post:

    Truthcentric (2019-07-11)

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 2019-01-24, 00:36
  2. Ethiopians/Eritreans Don't Think Highly of African American?
    By inquisitive in forum Race & Ethnicity in Society
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 2012-12-07, 01:59
  3. African Americans getting thier African Ancestry results
    By jonboyclem in forum Genetic DNA Companies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2012-10-16, 19:49
  4. African Ancestry
    By Pulaar in forum Genetic DNA Companies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2012-04-05, 14:41
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 2010-12-19, 16:38

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
<