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Thread: Population genomics of the Viking world (Ashot Margaryan et al. 2019)67 days old

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    life is like a bowl of cherries
    Viking life. You never know what you are going to get.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoSentien View Post
    I found Orkney on the excel spreadsheet based on the study in your original post.

    Vikings are still running rampant through Scotland as, according to the researchers, 29.2 per cent of descendants in Shetland have the DNA, 25.2 per cent in Orkney and 17.5 per cent in Caithness. This compares with just with 5.6 per cent of men in Yorkshire carrying Norse DNA.

    It was Germanic invaders who ravaged the English coast instead, leaving a trail of genetic footprints in their wake.


    The German Y chromosome R1b S21 is found at a high frequency of 29 per cent in the east, compared with a range of 19-24 per cent across the rest of England.

    https://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle-2...-dna-1-3781684
    Yes they also left the language of choice for us to post and formulate our thoughts on this thread and forum- English-aka Anglen-Saxon.
    Last edited by Silesian; 2019-07-22 at 00:32.
    Jedem das Seine--suum cuique, a fundamental juridical concept meaning "to each his own"
    Novotitorovka culture 3300–2700 BC, Yamnaya[Volga]-3300–2600 BC, Afanasievo[South Siberia]-3300 BCE — 2500 BCE, Croatia/Vucedol culture-3000 BC – 2200 BC, Catacomb-2800–2200 BC, Eastern Bell Beaker-]2800–1800 BCE, Poltavka-2700—2100 BC, Sintashta-Arkaim culture 2100–1800 BCE, Scythian-9th century BC up until the 4th century AD, Sarmatian-4th, 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE....

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  3. #22
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    So Goths are supposed to have originated in Gotland and then migrated to Poland to create Wielbark Culture.

    There are a lot of I1-Z63 in Wielbark Culture remains so it is natural to think that this was an important male line of Goths.

    But no I1-Z63 was found in Gotland (or anywhere else) in the Viking context.

    And in the Viking times half of Gotland was "Polish-like" autosomaly.

    Something doesn't add up here.

  4. #23
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    By the way someone should analyze DNA of these Swedish soldiers buried in Poland:

    "17,000 Swedes found in Polish mass grave"

    Polish archaeologists have succeeded in locating mass graves containing the remains of 17,000 Swedish soldiers, Aftonbladet reports.

    The soldiers perished at the Battle of Kalisz in western Poland on October 29, 1706, six years into the Great Northern War. The battle was part of King Karl XII's unexpected campaign against neutral Poland-Lithuania, which began after Swedish forces split the Russian army in two at the Battle of Narva in 1700.

    The war finally ended in defeat for Sweden at the Treaty of Nystad in 1721.

    Archaeologist Leszek Ziabka claims that Sweden has displayed a complete lack of interest in the fate of its fallen troops.

    “Swedish authorities have a list of all the names but don't care about them,” Ziabka told Aftonbladet.

    General Arvid Axel Mardefelt's troops were severely routed at the Battle of Kalisz, which lasted just two and a half hours. Those Swedish soldiers not slain in the heat of battle were quickly pursued and killed by a contingent of Ukrainian Cossacks.

    “We have so far dug up eight complete skeletons. The remains of at least 1,000 Swedes are located here,” said Ziabka.

    A second mass grave at nearby Koscielna Wies contains the remains of a further 16,000 Swedish soldiers, according to Polish news agency PAP. The agency further reports that farmers in the region have begun digging up skeletons, as well as weapons belonging to the Swedish soldiers.

    The Polish archaeologist explained that his team lacks the resources to analyse the finds. But should his Swedish counterparts show an interest they will be given full access to the three centuries old remains of their countrymen.

    “Despite the fact that Sweden is no longer interested in its fallen soldiers we in Poland intend to erect a monument to them,” said Ziabka.

    News agency PAP reported that the Swedish soldiers will not be forgotten on All Saints' Day – Polish farmers plan to light candles on the mass graves as a mark of respect.

    EDIT: I wouldn't be sure if all the fallen soldiers buried there were Swedes as this was in fact a true "battle of nations" with Polish factions present on both sides:

    Quote Originally Posted by WIKIPEDIA
    Battle of Kalisz
    (...)
    In the battle and its immediate aftermath the Swedes and their Polish allies suffered 2,000 men killed and another 2,900 captured[3] of which about 700 killed were Swedes with at least 1,800 captured.[5] The Russian–Polish–Saxon counterpart lost up to 3,000 men[3] in the battle of which, according to their own stories of two letters written after the battle, 806 killed and equally many wounded belonged to the Saxons and other Germans[2] while the Russians (possibly with the irregular Cossacks and Kalmyks) had sustained 500 killed and 800 wounded.[6] Another source mentions only 84 killed with another 324 wounded for the Russians.[7]

    The Swedish defeat was rendered moot when Charles XII exposed Augustus' ratification of the Altranstädt treaty, whereupon the latter gave in to obey by its terms and withdrew to Saxony by November.[4]

    Also, although he had planned to originally renounce the Treaty of Altranstädt, Augustus went along with its terms. Finally 1,800 Swedish prisoners were returned.
    Anyway, I would give this place some dramatic name like "Swedish death pits" and make a tourist attraction out of it.
    Last edited by Wojewoda; 2019-07-23 at 19:38.

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    Eastward expansions are commonly believed to have been carried out by Swedish Vikings, trading along navigable river systems and overland caravan routes. Swedish Vikings (Varangians) are also credited for the formation of the first Russian state. Haplogroup I2a2, which was carried by a Rurikid prince, could be some of the founding paternal lineages of the Rurikids or Varangians who ruled over the territories of modern Belarus, Russia, and Ukraine between the 9th and 11th centuries, known as Kievan Rus'. The Varangians are also linked with N1c1, a Finno-Ugric haplogroup, while the Varangian Guard in Byzantium is associated with I2a2. The Viking individuals with Swedish-like ancestry migrated to Russia, while a Danish-like ancestry component is more pronounced in England. Swedish Viking migrations' genetic impact is pronounced in the westernmost region of Russia, where the average frequency of I2a2 is 1-2%.

    Viking migrations
    Viking society is particularly famous for its ship technology, allowing for fast transport of large numbers of individuals in a single vessel26. These vessels enabled the Vikings not only to carry out lucrative raids and extended trade routes across Western Eurasia, but also to reach and settle lands in the North Atlantic27–30. Based on historical and archaeological data, Viking presence extended into both western and eastern Europe, reaching perhaps as far as the Pontic Steppe and the Middle East31,32. It is commonly believed that the westward migrations and raids were mainly carried out by people from what are now Norway and Denmark in the 9th and 10th centuries CE. In contrast to western movements, eastward expansions are commonly believed to have been carried out by Swedish Vikings, trading along navigable river systems and overland caravan routes32. Swedish Vikings (the ‘Rus’) are also credited for being active in the formation of the first Russian state33,34.

    Overall, our fine-scale ancestry analysis based on genomic data largely support the Viking expansion patterns inferred from archaeology (Figs. 3, 4 and S11.12). The eastward movements mainly involved individuals with Swedish-like ancestry, while the Viking individuals with Norwegian-like ancestry travelled to Iceland, Greenland, Ireland and the Isle of Man. A Danish-like ancestry component is more pronounced in present-day England, which is also in accordance with historical records35 and still visible in place-names34, and modern genetics36,37. Importantly, however, it is currently impossible for us to distinguish Danish-like ancestry in the British Isles from that of the Angles and Saxons, who migrated in the 5th-to-6th centuries CE from Jutland and Northern Germany.
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 2019-07-27 at 22:23.

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    Of course they had all kinds of ancestries, after all there were all those alliances with the Wends (I guess Poles, as we have discussed earlier) and they moved around.
    Like this, the original ship this was based on was built in Ireland, but was found in Denmark:


    Remember the Danish study posted some time ago? There was a small Polish substratum in the Danish population.

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    It's unclear which samples were used in genome-wide analysis for Vikings outside of Scandinavia. Those of males or females? For example, there are 12 samples in the study for Vikings of Gnezdovo (upper Dniepr 20-30 km to the east of Belarusian border towards Smolensk). Six males, and six females. Why would females join warriors on battle trips? We had female Vikings in eastern Europe, but those were from noble Norse families who married Varangian rulers in eastern Europe. Such as saint Olga of Kiev (Helga), Rogneda of Polotsk ( Ragnhild - the name is found in modern Iceland). Rogneda was grandmother of French queen Anne of Kiev. Normally, females will not join the battle trips. Not to mention Gnezdovo was a mixed settlement of Vikings (Varangians we call them) and Kriviches - one of the largest east Slavic tribe in western Russia & north-eastern & eastern Belarus. I assume the situation was similar in other regions of the Europe.

    Gnezdovo or Gnyozdovo (Russian: Гнёздово) is an archeological site located near the village of Gnyozdovo in Smolensky District, Smolensk Oblast, Russia. The site contains extensive remains of a Slavic-Varangian settlement that flourished in the 10th century as a major trade station on the trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnezdovo

    I am interested in Vikings' settlements in eastern Europe, as they were responsible for establishing Rus' state. According to chronicles Varangians arrived in north-western Russia settling on Volkhov river near the shore of Ladoga lake known as "Staraya Ladoga" or Aldeigjuborg in Old Norse.

    Staraya Ladoga used to be a prosperous trading outpost in the 8th and 9th centuries. A multi-ethnic settlement, it was dominated by Scandinavians who were called by the name of Rus'. For that reason, it is sometimes called the first capital of Rus state
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staraya_Ladoga
    Seven Ladogan samples out 8 used in IBD analysis clearly show proximity to modern Scandinavians - to Swedes and certain Danes, who are similar to Swedes. Only one sample to the modern day British.

    It makes sense. Ancestors of Danes & Norwegians travelled west & south, while ancestors of Swedes travelled east to Finland & north-western Russia.

    Below is the link to the place where it's all began . The origins of future political states of Russia, Ukraine & Belarus today.

    Staraya Ladoga


    Also, the genetic analysis of Varangians from Staraya Ladoga is the final nail into the coffin of alternative hypotheses on the origins of Rus' supported by marginal groups in Russia, Ukraine, and even Finland.

    PS It's unfortunate out of 6 male Gnezdovo sample, only 2 were used in the IBD analysis. Gnezdovo had a sizable Varangian community.



    Last edited by Rugevit; 2019-09-02 at 04:33.

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