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Thread: Philistines—The Jews’ Ancient Enemies—Were Europeans, DNA Confirms49 days old

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    Quote Originally Posted by NassBean View Post
    What about this cave painting from the Tassili (Bovidian period) so made between 3000 and 2500 BCE :



    Also how do you explain it ? Was there a massive migration during the 2nd millenium BC from Europe or the ME?
    It seems fake to me. But I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for convenience's sake. Let's say it's not a fake by Lhote and his team. How do we know it's really 5-4.5ky old? Keep in mind that cattle remained in use well after the pastoral period.

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  3. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by NonFingo View Post
    It seems fake to me. But I'll give it the benefit of the doubt for convenience's sake. Let's say it's not a fake by Lhote and his team. How do we know it's really 5-4.5ky old? Keep in mind that cattle remained in use well after the pastoral period.
    I found no information about it being fake but If I remember correctly Camps talked about it his book about berbers and he clearly stated that they were from that era ( you can also took the image and do a reverse search and see what information you can get)
    "Without doubt, Publius Cornelius, when you shall have a view of Africa from the sea, the reduction of your province of Spain will appear to you to have been a mere matter of sport and pastime." Titus-Livus, XXVIII,42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reason1234 View Post
    SLC45A2 was already present in southern Iberia in 5000 BC. The KEB sample is from 3000 BC and is related to this earlier Iberian population, so it seems likely that SLC45A2 was already in Northwest Africa at this time
    I'm really indifferent to the presence of SLC45A2 in northwest Africa by 3000BCE. If it's present in other samples, then so be it. But it was absent in this KEB sample and there is no reason to automatically assume something is wrong with that result. I just looked at the paper and I see no evidence of a particularly close relationship between KEB and TOR.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reason1234 View Post
    Ok I found the page on google books. The full quote:

    "the fusion which produced this type probably took place in Nubia or in the Southern Egyptian Oases, as it will before the conclusion of this chapter, be pointed out that the Temehu probably occupied both these districts. The intrusive xanthochroids are represented on the monuments, as already mentioned, but do not appear before the XIIth Dynasty."

    The Eastern Libyans (1914)

    What he's saying is that the Temehu moved into Nubia and southern Egyptian oases around the time of the 12th dynasty, i.e. around 2000 BC, when they are depicted on monuments.

    This fits with the view that Berbers settled in Lower Nubia before 2000 BC and created the C-Group culture there.

    "The C-Group culture is an archaeological culture found in Lower Nubia, which dates from ca. 2400 BCE to ca. 1550 BCE. The origins of the C-Group are still debated. Some scholars see it largely being evolved from the A/B-Group. Others think it more likely that the C-Group was brought by invaders or migrants that mingled with the local culture, with the C-Group perhaps originating in the then rapidly drying Sahara.[6] The C-Group were farmers and semi-nomadic herders keeping large numbers of cattle in an area that is today too arid for such herding.

    According to Peter Behrens (1981) and Marianne Bechaus-Gerst (2000), linguistic evidence indicates that the C-Group peoples spoke Afro-Asiatic languages of the Berber branch.[15][16]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Group_culture
    You say "full quote" as if I left out something important. According to Bates, those xanthochroids were "intrusive" and "modified" the original "Hamites". What Bates is saying is that Temehu moved south before xanthochroid elements (first attested during the 12th dynasty according to him) gave rise to lighter skinned Temehu. So he is essentially in line with my position.

    Bates' timeline:

    1) Temehu branched off original "Hamite" ancestors
    2) Temehu attested as occupying both districts in 6th dynasty text
    3) intrusive xanthochroids appear in 12th dynasty tomb

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    It dawned on me that these could be signatures of the Equidians that moved down into the Central Sahara. Maybe this is of help to you @NassBean since you asked me if there was evidence of a major influx during the second millennium BCE.

    If it's true that this Y-DNA subset arrived together in the Central Sahara 4-3kya, the proportion of R1b-M269 relative to E-M81 and E-M78 is very interesting. It would be consistent with a (Berberized?) Indo-European group moving into the Sahara and with some ending up further south.

    Both haplogroups G and N (accounting for two and one chromosomes,
    respectively) are rare in Africa, and their low frequency in this
    sample can most likely be explained by a recent Eurasian influx.
    Altogether, the proportion of recent Eurasian admixture found in our
    sample is approximately 15% (haplogroups E1b1b1b-M81, G-M201,
    N1c-Tat, R1b1b2-M269 and two chromosomes belonging to
    E1b1b1a-M78—see criteria below)
    , which is easily explained by the
    well-reported European arrivals to this territory within the last five
    centuries.
    The genetic landscape of Equatorial Guinea and the origin and migration routes of the Y chromosome haplogroup R-V88
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...hg2012167a.pdf

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