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Thread: The effects of racial mixing?3533 days old

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    Default The effects of racial mixing?

    I came across this text:


    Mother Nature likes race-mixing

    I’ve long been aware that Ashkenazi Jews have a high incidence of Tay-Sachs disease, which causes mental retardation and early death. I also had a vague notion that this disease took hold among Eastern European Jews because of centuries of “endogamy” – that is, marrying within the “tribe,” within the group.

    So I wondered: What about other populations that’ve practiced strict endogamy for generations upon generations, like the Japanese? Are they, too, more prone to genetic diseases than the rest of us?

    What about the Icelanders, out there on that island for a thousand years with their unpolluted pool of Viking genes? Any booby traps in their DNA?

    Or the Afrikaners, isolated not by geography but by ideology and will. No group of white people outside of Iceland has kept its gene pool as pure as the Boers. Does such “purity” come at a cost – a cost of disease, deformity, pain and death?

    My guess was “yes.” And sure enough, I’m right.

    Among Afrikaners, a variety of genetic disorders of the blood, skin and bones – such as sclerosteosis and lipoid proteinosis – occurs with high frequency. Afrikaners, at a rate five times higher than Americans, have a genetic abnormality which causes familial hypercholesterolemia (“FH” for short), a disease characterized by high cholesterol and severe hardening of the arteries. People with FH can have heart attacks as early as their 30s.

    Other “endogamous” groups have a high rate of FH: Ashkenazi Jews, Lebanese Christians, French Canadians, and Finns.

    Speaking of Finns, some 35 rare genetic diseases occur frequently in Finland. This is known as the “Finnish disease heritage,” and it’s attributed to a lack of “genetic diversity” among the Finns. One such disease is cartilage-hair hypoplasia (or “CHH”), a type of dwarfism that brings with it increased cancer risks and a flawed immune system.

    One out of every 76 Finns carries the defective gene responsible for CHH. The only ethnic group in which CHH is more common is the Amish. (One out of every 19 is a carrier).

    The more I studied, the more obvious it became: Nature punishes this sort of genetic exclusivism… this rigid rule of marrying-within-the-group.
    What's your take on this, should racial mixing be embraced? And if so to what degree?

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    Racial mixing has nothing to do with Finns' genetic diseases, as this research clearly states. Their problems are due to lack of diversity - small isolated population, that underwent bottleneck effect. Small starting genepool and very limited inflow is not the best combination. Racial mixing would neither cause, nor prevent such things - all Finns needed was a stable gene flow with other populations of the same Europid race. OR a bigger pool to start with.

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    This argument is based on the false assumption that each human population has an equal average of quality genes.

    When diversifying a gene pool. Whether it is good or bad, advantageous or disadvantageous, all depends on the gene pool being mixed with. The entire human gene pool is diverse. There are good genes and bad genes and genes that are good or bad relative to one another. Each population will have different average configurations of good and bad genes. Some may not have the genes for Tay-Sachs, but they might be less intelligent instead. Using this population to decrease the frequency of Tay-Sachs might not be the best idea. There is always a trade off. Whether that trade off is good or bad depends on whether or not the population being mixed with have an overall higher average of quality genes (or of equal quality)

    You can't just look at one trait, one gene to determine if mixing is good or bad (unless the trait you want from another population is so important it's worth overlooking all others, viz. intelligence). You must look at the entire genome of that population.

    Also, what is good for population A in the partnership, may be bad for population B. When using population B's gene pool to decrease the frequency of a negative gene in population A. Population B will have an increase in the frequency of the negative gene in their gene pool. It's not so bad if it is a recesive gene. Then dumping it into a gene pool with out the gene will result in it hardly ever expressing itself and practically eliminating that trait. Chances will be so low of that bad allele ever finding a partner to pair up with it will remain practically hidden forever except in rare cases.

    But you have to think: what if the gene for genius is recessive?

    Population X [high frequency of genius Allele]
    Population Y [low frequency of genius Allele]

    They mix.

    Now the chances of the Genius Allele pairing up with another have been dramatically reduced for Population X and the frequency of geniuses born in their civilization decreases. This has grave consequences for Population X's cultural development, etc.
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    We humans are basically identical in the majority of our dna. So whoever we have children by we are in effect screwing our mothers and fathers. Not a nice thought. Is it? Inbreeding is only a problem if it goes on generation after generation for hundreds of years. Most Daghestanis who live in their mountain Auls and who only marry within their Auls may have a higher rate of genetic problems than people who out marry. Think of that Josef Fritzel, his children by his daughter were all healthy barring one child which could have been saved had it had hospital treatment. I am not advocating inbreeding, just saying that the effects of inbreeding are exaggerated. With Finns, Ashkenazim Jews, Afrikaners, Amish, Mennonites and so on, the problem was not inbreeding but the small initial founding population which unfortunately had a couple who were heterozygous for a nasty mutant form of a gene. In the Afrikaner population the population was small but mixed, German, Dutch, French and other elements plus some Khoi Khoi and Malay but the main genetic problem that entered their population was from a Portuguese couple who were carriers of some nasty allele. In a small population nasty genes can't be weeded out but tend to get increased every generation.
    Last edited by Graeme; 2009-11-17 at 07:57.

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    Well, being a mixed-race person myself, I remember when I first came to this forum a few years ago, & claimed to be a full or almost full Spaniard, & so I basically had racial identity issues, but after I did two DNA tests with 23andMe & Ancestry, I accepted the fact that I'm Mixed.

    But, I noticed that many mixed-race people, especially those who are multi-generational mixes, have racial identity issues, for example there's this Mexican Indo-Mestizo guy from the Facebook anthropology groups who claims to be a Lebanese Harnizo, or this Zambo from Colombia who claims to be Semitic, or this Triracial guy from Colombia who claims to be 7/8 European, so I would say that's the main effects of race mixing, it's the racial identity.

    I'm against race mixing myself, I know it's sound hypocritical because I'm mixed already, but I see just the effects of race mixing, such as Racial Identity issues, which scares me, for the future.

    I'm for Racial Progression, being a Euromestizo, If I marry a white woman, my kids will look predominantly White, like 80% White, they might have light eyes & light hair, & lighter skin, I'm not a puritan, like many stormtards are, If you're 80%+ White, then your white.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
    Thanks for posting this. I've heard these figures before, but it's nice to be able to look at the physical chart. It definitely gives us something to seriously think about, but I can't help but feel like a lot of these results probably stem from the children's upbringing and home environments. I hope that I'm not being rude or unnecessarily offensive, but I have noticed that most people I have personally encountered in interracial relationships don't truly take the time to consider the effects that it could have on both the couple and the children who may come out of the union. It's anecdotal, but I do know a decent amount of mixed race couples where only 1 of the couple's heritages are celebrated, or even just acknowledged in a postive way. Unfortunately, I do believe that if children are brought up in an environment where all of their racial identities are not supported or nurtured, there will more than likely be some kind of identity confusion and behavioral problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alan500 View Post
    Well, being a mixed-race person myself, I remember when I first came to this forum a few years ago, & claimed to be a full or almost full Spaniard, & so I basically had racial identity issues, but after I did two DNA tests with 23andMe & Ancestry, I accepted the fact that I'm Mixed.

    But, I noticed that many mixed-race people, especially those who are multi-generational mixes, have racial identity issues, for example there's this Mexican Indo-Mestizo guy from the Facebook anthropology groups who claims to be a Lebanese Harnizo, or this Zambo from Colombia who claims to be Semitic, or this Triracial guy from Colombia who claims to be 7/8 European, so I would say that's the main effects of race mixing, it's the racial identity.

    I'm against race mixing myself, I know it's sound hypocritical because I'm mixed already, but I see just the effects of race mixing, such as Racial Identity issues, which scares me, for the future.

    I'm for Racial Progression, being a Euromestizo, If I marry a white woman, my kids will look predominantly White, like 80% White, they might have light eyes & light hair, & lighter skin, I'm not a puritan, like many stormtards are, If you're 80%+ White, then your white.
    If you don't mind me asking, do you think that your family (parents and extended) had any effect on your past racial identity issues?

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    Because risk among mixed-race adolescents is higher for all race combinations, some across-the-board explanation must be inferred. The most common explanation in the literature is stress associated with identity conflict. We cannot test this hypothesis directly. Many of the school variables tested for mixed-race risk are possible consequences of stress (e.g., most of the general health items, considered suicide, and drinking). Stress, then, is a possible explanation of mixed-race high risk because our risk assessment is based on possible stress symptoms. Whether the stress is associated with identity conflict is beyond our resources to test. Gibbs3 warns against jumping to the conclusion without direct evidence that the stresses of mixed-race adolescents are a consequence of race identity problems.

    CONCLUSION
    Adolescents who identify themselves as mixed race are at higher health and behavior risk than those of 1 race. Nevertheless, most mixed-race adolescents are at low risk. Most of the risk items we assessed may be interpreted as related to stress, so we may therefore choose to interpret mixed race as a source of stress. We cannot identify further the source of the stress. Subsequent research can start with the assumption of greater risk for the mixed-race-identified adolescent and try to identify the sources of stress. Only then can we recommend programmatic attention to mixed-race youths. Our comparison of mixed-race-identified adolescents on family structure, parent education, GPA, and PVT shows that on these culture-related nonrisk characteristics, mixed race youths have values in-between the constituent races, confirming a mixed-race cultural experience.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448064/
    Udry et al. (2003) observed that adolescents who identify more than 1 race are at higher health and behavior risks when compared with those who identify with 1 race only, while the sources of the stress are not directly associated with identity conflict by the study. I guess bullying in school is the direct cause of the truancy among mixed-race children, who are more likely to have school-related behavioral problems. Mixed-race children are often bullied in school and some of them even develop PTSD as a result. For instance, Kurdish refugee children mostly experienced some brutal forms of bullying in Japan for being physically and culturally different from the majority population.
    Last edited by ThirdTerm; 2019-06-23 at 23:12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdTerm View Post
    Udry et al. (2003) observed that adolescents who identify more than 1 race are at higher health and behavior risks when compared with those who identify with 1 race only, while the sources of the stress are not directly associated with identity conflict by the study. I guess bullying in school is the direct cause of the truancy among mixed-race children, who are more likely to have school-related behavioral problems. Mixed-race children are often bullied in school and some of them even develop PTSD as a result. For instance, Kurdish refugee children mostly experienced some brutal forms of bullying in Japan for being physically and culturally different from the majority population.
    Thank you for linking - that was really interesting.

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