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Thread: Winter war - 70 years ago today3495 days old

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    Default Winter war - 70 years ago today

    Today it is 70 years ago when independent, neutral and peaceful Finland was subjected to a barbarian and brutal attack by the Sovietunion.

    It was barbarious and brutal for several reasons; the dictatorial states of Nazi-Germany and communist Sovietunion acted according to the secret agreements of the Molotov-Ribbentropp pact and for months the Soviets had made unjust territorial demands of Finland.
    The Soviets staged an artillery bombing of its own lines and accused the Finnish army. The first targets in Finland were completely civilian. 16 towns were airraided with firebombs on the first day of the war without a declaration of war ever being made. The Finnish army lacked in everything from weapons and artillery rounds to tanks and airplanes.
    Finland was not really expecting a war because it just seemed so unlikely that a peaceful and non aggressive country would be attacked. The Red army had massed around 500 000 men backed by thousands of airplanes and tanks and the plan was to invade and conquer the whole country in just two weeks.

    105 days later a peace agreement was made in Moscow after the Finnish army had inflicted the Red army with one defeat after an other causing a total loss of around 125-150 000 dead Soviets and an additional 300 000 wounded but could not held out any longer when the Soviets poured in 1.5 million men towards the end of the war.

    http://yle.fi/uutiset/news/2009/11/f...r_1210071.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
    http://books.google.com/books?id=JW_...age&q=&f=false
    http://www.winterwar.com/mainpage.htm

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    That must of been some kind of miracle on the Finnish part, not only did they lack manpower but tanks and airplanes as well, but I supose Finland was fighting on its own home and they knew the area better,
    plus those ski troops really fucked the Soviets in the ass.


    I mean look at this:

    Finland:
    32 tanks
    114 aircraft

    vs

    USSR:
    2,514–6,541 tanks
    3,880 aircraft

    Also I didn't notice this before but Finland's terrain looks very swampy, maybe this was used to Finland's advantage?
    Last edited by Sevastopol; 2009-12-01 at 13:43.

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    In -40 degrees celsius swamps freeze.... The advantage of the Finns was that most Finnish men of that time were accustomed with skiing and most of the men were from rural areas used to work on fields and move about in the forrests. In the Continuation war fighting was hardest in summer but the Soviets did not have any advantage of that. The Soviet only advantage really, was sheer manpower and acceptance of high casualties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Motrhead Remember Me View Post
    In -40 degrees celsius swamps freeze.... The advantage of the Finns was that most Finnish men of that time were accustomed with skiing and most of the men were from rural areas used to work on fields and move about in the forrests. In the Continuation war fighting was hardest in summer but the Soviets did not have any advantage of that. The Soviet only advantage really, was sheer manpower and acceptance of high casualties.
    I read about how some of the Finnish machine-gunners had to go through therapy after killing so many Russians. I don't know why they used the human wave tactic when they had so many tanks and planes, was it too forested for these mechanised tactics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geto-Thracian View Post
    I read about how some of the Finnish machine-gunners had to go through therapy after killing so many Russians. I don't know why they used the human wave tactic when they had so many tanks and planes, was it too forested for these mechanised tactics?
    To many lakes hiding Finnish cities, so tanks would have trouble nagivating through this maze of lakes. Boats maybe would of worked better for the Soviets instead of human rush technique.
    Last edited by Sevastopol; 2009-12-10 at 05:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevastopol View Post
    To many lakes hiding Finnish cities, so tanks would have trouble nagivating through this maze of lakes. Boats maybe would of worked better for the Soviets instead of human rush technique.
    Sounds logical, but the map you are using does not even show Karelia, where the fighting was mostly and the part the Russians took from them. probably it is similar ground though.

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    This was one of the reasons why Nazi Germany stabbed the Soviets in the back. They saw how seemingly weak they were, having trouble with lil Finland, and thought they could take them instead of sharing living space in Europe.

    If not for this Russian "hiccup", history might have turned out very differently, with two fucked up allied spheres of influence ruling Europe till today. "Western" culture would've been represented in Europe by little Britain, isolated and heavily defended from ze Germans and Russians by the US.

    But who knows, maybe the Germans would've got bored of marching around in their silly jackboots and joined the western camp sooner or later, leading Europe to the the same sort of cold war we had anyway, but with an amazing network of highways over most of the continent thanks to German engineering. On the other hand, there'd also be some really kitsch but grand Nazi cities and buildings, and maybe even a bunch of gigantic statues of Hitler and Himmler, littering the place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevastopol View Post
    To many lakes hiding Finnish cities, so tanks would have trouble nagivating through this maze of lakes. Boats maybe would of worked better for the Soviets instead of human rush technique.
    Going by boat makes you an even easier target, but you forget again that it was Winter...
    In the Continuation war the Soviets used all armydisciplines they had planes, tanks and ships. The great Russosoviet problem was, and still is, bad leadership and terrible tactical thinking. Finnish submarines sank Soviet ships and the coastline was mined. Addd to that a formidable coastal battery that kept Soviet ships away.

    ---------- Post added 2009-12-10 at 08:53 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Polako View Post
    This was one of the reasons why Nazi Germany stabbed the Soviets in the back. They saw how seemingly weak they were, having trouble with lil Finland, and thought they could take them instead of sharing living space in Europe.
    True. But the Sovietunion would have attacked Germany at some stage anyway. Stalin wanted Germany and Western Europe to battle each other weary and then come in and sweep all.

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    Today it is 70 years ago when independent, neutral and peaceful Finland was subjected to a barbarian and brutal attack by the Sovietunion.
    A full-blown Fenno whack-job. . Cannot but laugh at your post.

    This was not a miracle, a Finnish rural country road cannot take but a maxium one mechanical division (15 000 - 20 000 men), it's the same whether you have a million man or 20 000, you cannot sent the extra, 980 000, men on a forest taiga with no roads. Finns were good at employing tactics where the enemy was encircled and cut out from the supply routes. Also, the logistics of Soviet troops was a catastrophy, guns were shot against own troops because there were loads platoon leaders who could not use a compass, cargo-trains were sent to wrong stations, the men lacked winter clothes, etc.

    The Soviets were obviously worried about the safety of St.Petersburgh, Finnish border was at the time on a canoon-shot a way from the metropol. They had a huge geopolitical urge to shift the borders, at first they tried it peacefull way through swaps of land, but the Finnish politicians declined all offers, against the wish of Mannerheim.
    Last edited by PeterThaGreat; 2009-12-10 at 09:22.

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    They fought bravely against the criminal red devils of East. Brave men!

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